Buh Bye Raiders (San Francisco: live, price, places to eat)

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

East bay fans are the worst fair weather fans. Kind of hard for a sports team to do well in that market.


Look at the A's, they are a national disgrace. You need an army of blow up dolls to fill the stands, because everyone is trying to take BART to the Giants game.

Well support is a two way street. You have to ask if the owners have shown the same loyalty and commitment to the city as well.

The Raiders used to sell out all the time before they moved to LA in 1981.

As for the A's - Lew Wolff has shown his true colors and intentions all the time with his disinclination to invest in the team - force fire sales of the players constantly, trash the city and look to move to SJ.

[Independentthinking]

Originally Posted by silverkris

Well support is a two way street. You have to ask if the owners have shown the same loyalty and commitment to the city as well.

The Raiders used to sell out all the time before they moved to LA in 1981.

As for the A's - Lew Wolff has shown his true colors and intentions all the time with his disinclination to invest in the team - force fire sales of the players constantly, trash the city and look to move to SJ.

I call complete BS on the A's comment. That team had incredible runs in the playoffs and the World Series, and still were not supported by the community. Billy Beane showed that he could get a quality team on the field at discount prices. Yet despite his brilliance, and the success he had in putting an excellent team on the field, it was always very easy to get playoff tickets for the A's. That team was clearly not supported. Since 1993 they have only exceeded the American League average in attendence once, yet during that time they were in the playoffs 9 times. I'd give the middle finger to the fans also if I was ownership.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

I call complete BS on the A's comment. That team had incredible runs in the playoffs and the World Series, and still were not supported by the community. Billy Beane showed that he could get a quality team on the field at discount prices. Yet despite his brilliance, and the success he had in putting an excellent team on the field, it was always very easy to get playoff tickets for the A's. That team was clearly not supported. Since 1993 they have only exceeded the American League average in attendence once, yet during that time they were in the playoffs 9 times. I'd give the middle finger to the fans also if I was ownership.

What are you talking about? Did you live here in the late 80's and early 90's? The A's had a ton of support. The Coliseum used to be packed then and the Giants had one foot out the door to Tampa. It's was a much different team and atmosphere when the Haas family owned it. Wolff totally alienated fans and literally insulted them. Also the Coliseum has been an outdated, decrepit stadium for a long time now too. Stupid a** Raiders ruined that place.

[Independentthinking]

Originally Posted by sav858

What are you talking about? Did you live here in the late 80's and early 90's? The A's had a ton of support. The Coliseum used to be packed then and the Giants had one foot out the door to Tampa. It's was a much different team and atmosphere when the Haas family owned it. Wolff totally alienated fans and literally insulted them. Also the Coliseum has been an outdated, decrepit stadium for a long time now too. Stupid a** Raiders ruined that place.

Nice dodge and deflect (in addition to your other excuses). Let me know when you want to address my comment.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

Nice dodge and deflect (in addition to your other excuses). Let me know when you want to address my comment.

I did address your comment about community support. What exactly did I not address? You clearly didn't live here when the Haas family owned the team did you?

[Independentthinking]

Originally Posted by sav858

I did address your comment about community support. What exactly did I not address? You clearly didn't live here when the Haas family owned the team did you?

You dodged the fact that in 24 years they only exceeded the league average one time, despite being one of the elite teams in the American League for at least 9 of those years (and they weren't exactly in last place on many of the other years).

You stupidly assume I didn't live in this area when the Hass family was in charge despite the fact that I've live in the Bay Area since 1966.

For those of you that care about facts, here are the A's attendance by year during all the years Sav is talking about that everyone should be so impressed by. Sorry, I'm not the least bit impressed by their attendance numbers.


Oakland Athletics Attendance Records (1901 - 2015) by Baseball Almanac

Note they were in the World Series in 1972-1974 (see attendance numbers for those years). Hard to imagine in 3 years where they were in the World Series having a per game average of 11,888, 12,355, and 10,441. So impressive!

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

You dodged the fact that in 24 years they only exceeded the league average one time, despite being one of the elite teams in the American League for at least 9 of those years (and they weren't exactly in last place on many of the other years).

You stupidly assume I didn't live in this area when the Hass family was in charge despite the fact that I've live in the Bay Area since 1966.

For those of you that care about facts, here are the A's attendance by year during all the years Sav is talking about that everyone should be so impressed by. Sorry, I'm not the least bit impressed by their attendance numbers.


Oakland Athletics Attendance Records (1901 - 2015) by Baseball Almanac

Note they were in the World Series in 1972-1974 (see attendance numbers for those years). So impressive!

They still had decent attendance some of those years, but yeah I'm aware they weren't tops in the league so not sure what exactly I was supposed to address. Wolff has really pissed off a lot of fans over the last 10 years and I think that has affected attendance even in playoff years. Just because a team isn't leading in attendance doesn't mean it doesn't have community support, especially for a team that splits a market.

If you did I'm not sure how you could claim the community hasn't supported them.

They were in the top attendance several of those years I mentioned for the AL. Just because someone like you isn't the "least bit impressed" doesn't really mean they weren't supported or didn't have good attendance.

[Independentthinking]

Originally Posted by sav858

They still had decent attendance some of those years, but yeah I'm aware they weren't tops in the league so not sure what exactly I was supposed to address. Wolff has really pissed off a lot of fans over the last 10 years and I think that has affected attendance even in playoff years. Just because a team isn't leading in attendance doesn't mean it doesn't have community support, especially for a team that splits a market.

If you did I'm not sure how you could claim the community hasn't supported them.

They were in the top attendance several of those years I mentioned for the AL. Just because someone like you isn't the "least bit impressed" doesn't really mean they weren't supported or didn't have good attendance.

What are you talking about?! What part of "they didn't exceed the American League average" don't you get? That means they were not in the top half of all the teams, even in years where they were in the World Series. That's absolutely pathetic.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

What are you talking about?! What part of "they didn't exceed the American League average" don't you get? That means they were not in the top half of all the teams, even in years where they were in the World Series. That's absolutely pathetic.

I mentioned the late 80's to early 90's. They did exceed the AL attendance average then, you even provided a link that shows that so maybe look at it again a little slower. They ranked in the Top 5 AL teams for attendance from 89 to 92.

[WizardOfRadical]

Originally Posted by Independentthinking

What are you talking about?! What part of "they didn't exceed the American League average" don't you get? That means they were not in the top half of all the teams, even in years where they were in the World Series. That's absolutely pathetic.

Exactly. By all metrics A's attendence is awful. With people only showing up during the late 1980's and early 1990's, when the team was a guranteed pennant contender.


By contrast Dodgers and Angels share a market and are both top attendence teams.

Like football, the bay is an over saturated baseball market, and can only support one team.

A's need to relocate to Austin.