NEWS: Gang Bangers Shoot Out in Dolores Park (Mission District) (San Francisco: insurance, crime)

[SocSciProf]

Originally Posted by Oakformonday

I judge based on the non-verbal - demeanor, dress, gender etc...

I'd have a much different reaction to each group in the following pictures and I think we all would...

Interesting idea. I wonder how you'd react to this group?

[Oakformonday]

Originally Posted by SocSciProf

Interesting idea. I wonder how you'd react to this group?

If I saw them in Dolores Park then I would identify them as not a threat. If I had millions of dollars to invest and was looking for an ethical person to invest my money then I would consider them a threat to my money but, like the BART discussion, we are, or at least I am, talking about danger in public. I get your point and I agree with you but, again, I am not talking about my financial security here. I am talking about my personal security out in public. Those vile white men are not going to hit me over the head, point a gun at me or shoot me b/c I am having a picnic in a park. OK!

[SocSciProf]

Originally Posted by Oakformonday

If I saw them in Dolores Park then I would identify them as not a threat. If I had millions of dollars to invest and was looking for an ethical person to invest my money then I would consider them a threat to my money but, like the BART discussion, we are, or at least I am, talking about danger in public. I get your point and I agree with you but, again, I am not talking about my financial security here. I am talking about my personal security out in public. Those vile white men are not going to hit me over the head, point a gun at me or shoot me b/c I am having a picnic in a park. OK!

How 'bout these?

[bmw335xi]

It's common sense most of the time, not always, but if a person is dressed nice regardless of race, most people will not find them a threat. If the person is dressed like a gang member, regardless of race most people will find them a threat. But common sense doesnt exist in the world of PC.

[Oakformonday]

Originally Posted by SocSciProf

How 'bout these?

They look like suburban dads so - no threat. I don't think you are comprehending what I am saying and I'm not repeating myself. Enjoy your Saturday.

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

It's common sense most of the time, not always, but if a person is dressed nice regardless of race, most people will not find them a threat. If the person is dressed like a gang member, regardless of race most people will find them a threat. But common sense doesnt exist in the world of PC.

Seriously. I'm what you call a liberal but I'm practical and use common sense when I am out in public. Cheers.

[SocSciProf]

Originally Posted by Oakformonday

They look like suburban dads so - no threat. I don't think you are comprehending what I am saying and I'm not repeating myself. Enjoy your Saturday.

Seriously. I'm what you call a liberal but I'm practical and use common sense when I am out in public. Cheers.

I understand what you are saying. I just disagree. Organized crime, white collar crime, corporate malfeasance, is FAR more costly--in dollars, opportunity, and actual lives--than are muggers.* But most humans see the danger right in front of them, and ignore the far larger dangers that surround them. Here are some examples:

--Those Bay Areans worried about the second-hand smoke of the person beside them in a bar . . . but who haven't done ANYTHING to prepare for the sure-to-come earthquake.

--People who won't fly . . . yet drive everyday even though 40,000+ people die on the roads every day.

--People afraid to walk to the store at 8:00pm for fear of muggers . . . yet they entrust their 401k and retirement funds to people they've never met.

Please note: I think muggers are a problem and should be found, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. I am simply saying that white collar criminals do as much or more harm and ALSO should be found, tried, convicted, and imprisoned--and not in some cushy country club "prison."

The three examples above involve people possibly dying because they focused on the easy target and missed the big picture. Someone who loses their life savings at 62 is gonna have a hard time living what would have been the next 15-35 years, much less doing so in comfort and safety. They'll have to move out of their home (and may have no kids who can take them). They'll get lower quality health care. They'll have less money for food. I know the death may be slow, but the lower quality of life and hastened death is still directly traceable to malfeasance that could have been preempted had they brought the same critical eye/suspicion to bankers in suits that they brought to their actual (mostly innocent) neighbors and near-neighbors.

*See the following paper (dated, but nothing suggests the relative amounts have changed appreciably):

http://www7.esc.edu/vvernon/Aggregat...Anderson99.pdf

on the aggregate costs of crime, which contained the following paragraph:

More than $603 billion worth of transfers result from crime. After the $204 billion lost to occupational fraud and the $123 billion in unpaid taxes, the $109 billion lost to health insurance fraud represents the greatest transfer by more than a factor of two, and the associated costs amount to almost 10 percent of the nations’ health care expenditures. Robberies, perhaps the classic crime, ironically generate a smaller volume of transfers ($775 million) [that's million with an "M," 2 orders of magnitude less than the billion with a "B" for the white collar crimes above] than any other category of crime.

[Masterful_Man]

Originally Posted by PixelatedTherapy

And turns out I was right.

"The gunmen are believed to be Norteno gang members and the intended targets belong to their rival gang, MS-13, sources say. However, the the 68-year-old man was an innocent bystander."

San Francisco Police Step Up Security After Triple Shooting in Dolores Park - NBC Bay Area

Some of this gang violence could be avoided if San Francisco would cooperate with the feds to help enforce immigration laws.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Masterful_Man

Some of this gang violence could be avoided if San Francisco would cooperate with the feds to help enforce immigration laws.

Thanks to Trump, illegal immigration is way down, he is also calling to eradicate MS-13 from the country, which many are here illegally.

CNN was actually interviewing people in Mexico along their Southern border and they were saying how the cost to get smuggled into the US has gone from $3,000 to now over $7,000 and a lot of people just don't think it's worth it because they heard as soon as you get there Trump will deport you. The person being interviewed illegally crossed into Mexico and said he will set up home in Mexico for the time being, which has seen over a 100% increase in illegal immigration because people are now settling in Mexico instead of the US from Central America. Mexico is now increasing military patrols along their Southern border to help stop the mass increase in illegal immigration, what a bunch of hypocrites.

[GSR13]

Originally Posted by silverkris

You're acting in bad faith when you post these types of comments.

The point is that stereotypes mean that if you're a member of that group tagged with that stereotype, the burden of proof is on that person unless otherwise.

Case in point: If a white kid shoots up a place (e.g. Dylan Roof) - killing folks = he's said to be mentally deficient but we don't tag white people as clinically depressed nor a meth addicts. He's allowed to be an individual. Now if a person of color commits a crime, the whole group is saddled with that.

Stereotypes:

Mexicans = illegals immigrants, criminals

African Americans = thugs

Muslims = terrorists who don't assimilate to American standards

White people aren't tagged with being criminals as a whole when someone shoots up or goes on a killing spree. That's called a double standard.

When's the last time you had an original thought?

[Oakformonday]

Originally Posted by SocSciProf

I understand what you are saying. I just disagree. Organized crime, white collar crime, corporate malfeasance, is FAR more costly--in dollars, opportunity, and actual lives--than are muggers.* But most humans see the danger right in front of them, and ignore the far larger dangers that surround them. Here are some examples:

--Those Bay Areans worried about the second-hand smoke of the person beside them in a bar . . . but who haven't done ANYTHING to prepare for the sure-to-come earthquake.

--People who won't fly . . . yet drive everyday even though 40,000+ people die on the roads every day.

--People afraid to walk to the store at 8:00pm for fear of muggers . . . yet they entrust their 401k and retirement funds to people they've never met.

Please note: I think muggers are a problem and should be found, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. I am simply saying that white collar criminals do as much or more harm and ALSO should be found, tried, convicted, and imprisoned--and not in some cushy country club "prison."

The three examples above involve people possibly dying because they focused on the easy target and missed the big picture. Someone who loses their life savings at 62 is gonna have a hard time living what would have been the next 15-35 years, much less doing so in comfort and safety. They'll have to move out of their home (and may have no kids who can take them). They'll get lower quality health care. They'll have less money for food. I know the death may be slow, but the lower quality of life and hastened death is still directly traceable to malfeasance that could have been preempted had they brought the same critical eye/suspicion to bankers in suits that they brought to their actual (mostly innocent) neighbors and near-neighbors.

*See the following paper (dated, but nothing suggests the relative amounts have changed appreciably):

http://www7.esc.edu/vvernon/Aggregat...Anderson99.pdf

on the aggregate costs of crime, which contained the following paragraph:

Yes, we both see eye to eye here. I agree 100% with everything you wrote above! I think the issue is that I focused on just street crime and ONLY street crime. I have expressed and think the same as you on these topics. I think we are more alike than not since you actually sound a bit like me!