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then why sit back and whine about it? Get out and get involved in local politics, that's where an individual can really make a difference if they are noisy enough.
Exactly! Don't get p*****, get involved! Focus on the issues itself and you may find common ground.
Then move to Sacramento because except for bag laws I've not been aware of any of your other issues. And what's interesting is, my step-son and his wife and son live in SF and they are just about the most apolitical people you've ever met but they don't seem to be all bent out of shape by "liberal politics", somehow they manage to live their lives without ever getting involved in it.
Exactly! Whaaahhh says people that think a bag ordinance is such a hardship.
Ireland, where I lived was the first in Europe to adopt this- for many reasons. Not only do you bring your own bags, you also must pack your own groceries. I still do this--keeps me active and the line behind me moving. No sweat off my back as I'm able bodied and don't make a silly issue out of nothing. I keep a ton of bags in the back of my car and if I forget (rarely--I'm in the habit now), I merely take the cart to my car and load it up without a bag---or just pay for one if I really have to have one.
People need to look up the Pacific garbage patch and hope that so called 'conservatives' aren't really 'conservative' at all. How to they intend to deal with that problem? Call it fake or "liberal" issue? The planet couldn't care less if one is American Democrat or Republican. There's too much damned plastic being used.
Exactly! Whaaahhh says people that think a bag ordinance is such a hardship.
Ireland, where I lived was the first in Europe to adopt this- for many reasons. Not only do you bring your own bags, you also must pack your own groceries. I still do this--keeps me active and the line behind me moving. No sweat off my back as I'm able bodied and don't make a silly issue out of nothing. I keep a ton of bags in the back of my car and if I forget (rarely--I'm in the habit now), I merely take the cart to my car and load it up without a bag---or just pay for one if I really have to have one.
People need to look up the Pacific garbage patch and hope that so called 'conservatives' aren't really 'conservative' at all. How to they intend to deal with that problem? Call it fake or "liberal" issue? The planet couldn't care less if one is American Democrat or Republican. There's too much damned plastic being used.
I assure you that the offering of plastic bags at retail point of sale has NOTHING to do with the Great Garbage Patch - that is entirely from non-western countries using the ocean as their dump, instead of being responsible normal human beings. Nobody in the US has dumped their garbage in the ocean for more than 50 years.
then why sit back and whine about it? Get out and get involved in local politics, that's where an individual can really make a difference if they are noisy enough.
Yes, exactly. If one moderate city council member will get booted out somehow, organize with your neighbors, network across the city through professional organizations, Rotary, whatever, and plan a clean sweep; all new city council. Go for it, citizensadvocate! Earn your username! Flex your voting muscles.
then why sit back and whine about it? Get out and get involved in local politics, that's where an individual can really make a difference if they are noisy enough.
Thats what I always want to know. Though it appears there are some people like me who went through a lot trying including attending city council meetings and gathering signature petitions. Though while many people may support the cause there is not much who are are able to work together. It appears people are negative and think they would always lose when confronting special interests and one sided media. If the council majority wants to build a mall or hotel in residents' backyards or ban a certain item or activity or require something they are going to do it regardless even if more than half the city showed up to meetings or wrote letters to tell them not to. Lobbyists drive the show in council meetings it just depending on whether the council majority gives in and usually the end results are known well before the public council vote. In the Bay Area leftist lobbyists would likely win control over the council chamber but developers can sometimes win control of the same council makeup too. Apparently they can be hypocritical by authorizing developers to hurt the environment but at the same time penalize relatively harmless activities by voting residents.
This happens in city council meetings when the opposition is basically lined up to the door of the council chambers but their letters and severely limited speaking time becomes fruitless as long before the issue is made public its already a done deal between the lobbyists and council majority and nothing will change their minds. Also Many people gave up voting after learning that all the candidates think the same way and that their votes are just an illusion of control in an long already set agenda. Voting them out would not be an option and even if it were the next council would be just the same. The pre selection process already have sealed their fate and hammered the nails in the coffin. I know that three Milpitas city council members that opposed a lot of bad policies pushed by Bay Area type lobbyists and their city manager they were bullied hard until the end of their terms. Essentially they all gotten ran out of town by the next term and replaced with a council majority that passed all these bias policies. In other words you won't last more than one term if you don't run the city in a uber left manner or agree with uber left policies. This is not the case in SoCal though alas unless Sacramento says otherwise. Though we can't blame the general population in the Bay Area for this as many immigrants in these cities who strive to make a living don't want more meddling in our livelyhoods. Most Milpitas residents and business owners were very relieved when the city did not embrace in new ordinances that other Bay Area cities embraced.
True great pacific garbage patch if its proven to exist would not only not be reduced by these bans. It makes it worse as many six packs, wrappers, straws, and all those other plastics that our groceries comes with are far less likely to be tied in and will likely blow away from where its kept. Its much safer to give shoppers the option to have something to contain all that wrapping and used plastic items before throwing it into the garbage to prevent trash confetti. The pictures of sea turtles eating a piece of plastic is often misleading as it is a piece of fishing gear their eating. Though if those used fishing gear were all properly tied in bags and properly disposed of in trash it would not have been eaten by the turtle.
Last edited by citizensadvocate; 08-13-2017 at 02:04 AM..
Thats what I always want to know. Though it appears there are some people like me who went through a lot trying including attending city council meetings and gathering signature petitions. Though while many people may support the cause there is not much who are are able to work together. It appears people are negative and think they would always lose when confronting special interests and one sided media. If the council majority wants to build a mall or hotel in residents' backyards or ban a certain item or activity or require something they are going to do it regardless even if more than half the city showed up to meetings or wrote letters to tell them not to. Lobbyists drive the show in council meetings it just depending on whether the council majority gives in and usually the end results are known well before the public council vote. In the Bay Area leftist lobbyists would likely win control over the council chamber but developers can sometimes win control of the same council makeup too. Apparently they can be hypocritical by authorizing developers to hurt the environment but at the same time penalize relatively harmless activities by voting residents.
This happens in city council meetings when the opposition is basically lined up to the door of the council chambers but their letters and severely limited speaking time becomes fruitless as long before the issue is made public its already a done deal between the lobbyists and council majority and nothing will change their minds. Also Many people gave up voting after learning that all the candidates think the same way and that their votes are just an illusion of control in an long already set agenda. Voting them out would not be an option and even if it were the next council would be just the same. The pre selection process already have sealed their fate and hammered the nails in the coffin. I know that three Milpitas city council members that opposed a lot of bad policies pushed by Bay Area type lobbyists and their city manager they were bullied hard until the end of their terms. Essentially they all gotten ran out of town by the next term and replaced with a council majority that passed all these bias policies. In other words you won't last more than one term if you don't run the city in a uber left manner or agree with uber left policies. This is not the case in SoCal though alas unless Sacramento says otherwise. Though we can't blame the general population in the Bay Area for this as many immigrants in these cities who strive to make a living don't want more meddling in our livelyhoods. Most Milpitas residents and business owners were very relieved when the city did not embrace in new ordinances that other Bay Area cities embraced.
True great pacific garbage patch if its proven to exist would not only not be reduced by these bans. It makes it worse as many six packs, wrappers, straws, and all those other plastics that our groceries comes with are far less likely to be tied in and will likely blow away from where its kept. Its much safer to give shoppers the option to have something to contain all that wrapping and used plastic items before throwing it into the garbage to prevent trash confetti. The pictures of sea turtles eating a piece of plastic is often misleading as it is a piece of fishing gear their eating. Though if those used fishing gear were all properly tied in bags and properly disposed of in trash it would not have been eaten by the turtle.
Great post. It is also true in so cal though. For instance Huntington Beach is building like crazy. The nimbys are fighting it for all they have but it's a done deal and hotels and apts are being built on every empty lot
Thats what I always want to know. Though it appears there are some people like me who went through a lot trying including attending city council meetings and gathering signature petitions. Though while many people may support the cause there is not much who are are able to work together. It appears people are negative and think they would always lose when confronting special interests and one sided media. If the council majority wants to build a mall or hotel in residents' backyards or ban a certain item or activity or require something they are going to do it regardless even if more than half the city showed up to meetings or wrote letters to tell them not to. Lobbyists drive the show in council meetings it just depending on whether the council majority gives in and usually the end results are known well before the public council vote. In the Bay Area leftist lobbyists would likely win control over the council chamber but developers can sometimes win control of the same council makeup too. Apparently they can be hypocritical by authorizing developers to hurt the environment but at the same time penalize relatively harmless activities by voting residents.
This happens in city council meetings when the opposition is basically lined up to the door of the council chambers but their letters and severely limited speaking time becomes fruitless as long before the issue is made public its already a done deal between the lobbyists and council majority and nothing will change their minds. Also Many people gave up voting after learning that all the candidates think the same way and that their votes are just an illusion of control in an long already set agenda. Voting them out would not be an option and even if it were the next council would be just the same. The pre selection process already have sealed their fate and hammered the nails in the coffin. I know that three Milpitas city council members that opposed a lot of bad policies pushed by Bay Area type lobbyists and their city manager they were bullied hard until the end of their terms. Essentially they all gotten ran out of town by the next term and replaced with a council majority that passed all these bias policies. In other words you won't last more than one term if you don't run the city in a uber left manner or agree with uber left policies. This is not the case in SoCal though alas unless Sacramento says otherwise. Though we can't blame the general population in the Bay Area for this as many immigrants in these cities who strive to make a living don't want more meddling in our livelyhoods. Most Milpitas residents and business owners were very relieved when the city did not embrace in new ordinances that other Bay Area cities embraced.
True great pacific garbage patch if its proven to exist would not only not be reduced by these bans. It makes it worse as many six packs, wrappers, straws, and all those other plastics that our groceries comes with are far less likely to be tied in and will likely blow away from where its kept. Its much safer to give shoppers the option to have something to contain all that wrapping and used plastic items before throwing it into the garbage to prevent trash confetti. The pictures of sea turtles eating a piece of plastic is often misleading as it is a piece of fishing gear their eating. Though if those used fishing gear were all properly tied in bags and properly disposed of in trash it would not have been eaten by the turtle.
Can you just keep your focus on an issue ---- this is TL DR territory. Are you specifically upset about bag laws or are you just ranting about local politics? Are you considered pro-development or don't want more development?
Have you attempted to really try to find common ground with other citizens who feel the same way you do, or do you just throw up your hands, gripe and complain? Look, it takes effort, time and energy if you really feel strongly about it.
Umm, that poster was merely answering the OP's question - even said "I'm used to it," so I'd hardly call that complaining. Also, complaining about (and then working to change) what you view as wrong is the CORE of American values. Anyone who uses the old "if you don't like it, then leave" diatribe is essentially assaulting what makes this country great. JMO.
Now to answer the original question, I'm very liberal but in more of an independent/libertarian kind of way; meaning I don't care what other people do or feel, as long as it's not directly harming anyone else. So I'm not a fan of "nanny laws" which are so prevalent here, like the over-extending smoking bans, food bans/restrictions, even seatbelt and helmet laws to some extent. Hey, if you wanna turn your brain into pasta, why should anyone try to stop you? Of course, I'm referring only to adults here.
Umm, that poster was merely answering the OP's question - even said "I'm used to it," so I'd hardly call that complaining. Also, complaining about (and then working to change) what you view as wrong is the CORE of American values. Anyone who uses the old "if you don't like it, then leave" diatribe is essentially assaulting what makes this country great. JMO.
Now to answer the original question, I'm very liberal but in more of an independent/libertarian kind of way; meaning I don't care what other people do or feel, as long as it's not directly harming anyone else. So I'm not a fan of "nanny laws" which are so prevalent here, like the over-extending smoking bans, food bans/restrictions, even seatbelt and helmet laws to some extent. Hey, if you wanna turn your brain into pasta, why should anyone try to stop you? Of course, I'm referring only to adults here.
Less people means less expensive housing. There's a reason red states are so cheap.
Move to Kansas or Alabama if you want a libertarian paradise.
^^See what we mean?
Pretty funny you should say that. It's restrictive land use and zoning policies pushed by liberals that have priced you out of the Bay Area housing market.
By the way, neither of those states are really libertarian, but clearly you're more interested in name calling than actual facts.
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Go for it, citizensadvocate! Earn your username! Flex your voting muscles. 
