SF could be in for a big 'doom loop' (San Francisco: gated, restaurant)

[njbiodude]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Yes, but keep in mind that in the virtual world, posting redundant links day in and day out of anything one can find that is negative (which is very easy to do on the internet) implies that one is 'fair and balanced' in their presentation of facts (no ulterior motive here). Anyone that doesn't like it is merely sensitive and an apologist

Now while everyone is waiting for the 'doom loop', might I suggest the following:

1) Take a walk in Golden Gate Park

2) Hang out in Dolores Park and play some music (maybe a little Santana or Malo to bring back memories)

3) Head down to the Presidio and check out the Lucas films figures or the Disney Museum

4) Take a stroll at the Palace of Fine Arts

5) Go have an Irish Coffee at the Buena Vista Cafe

6) Head over to the Legion of Honor

7) Go get some sour dough bread at Boudin Cafe

8) Check out the murals in the Mission district and grab a burrito

9) Have some yummy sweets at Tartine bakery

10) Go to MOMA

11) Head down to Fisherman's Wharf on the Cable Car

12) Go to the Exploratorium

13) Take in a Giants game

14) Go to the Academy Arts and Science

15) Go to a Symphony

16) Head over to Coit Tower and check out the view

17) Walk the Golden Gate Bridge and head over to Sausalito

Just a few suggestions. Feel free to add more.

Surf Fort Point at sunset and watch the amazing sunset from the water and the bridge lights subsequently turn on.

As someone that’s been in the area a while SF isn’t going to go the way of Detroit. However, I don’t doubt certain neighborhoods will become so horrible civilized people will basically abandon them for a bit. Of course, the rents will drop, artists will move in and then SF will become cool again. And concerned citizens will clean up the filth. The circle of life for many cities.

[tikkasf]

Originally Posted by blameyourself

Yes, but keep in mind that in the virtual world, posting redundant links day in and day out of anything one can find that is negative (which is very easy to do on the internet) implies that one is 'fair and balanced' in their presentation of facts (no ulterior motive here). Anyone that doesn't like it is merely sensitive and an apologist

Now while everyone is waiting for the 'doom loop', might I suggest the following:

1) Take a walk in Golden Gate Park

2) Hang out in Dolores Park and play some music (maybe a little Santana or Malo to bring back memories)

3) Head down to the Presidio and check out the Lucas films figures or the Disney Museum

4) Take a stroll at the Palace of Fine Arts

5) Go have an Irish Coffee at the Buena Vista Cafe

6) Head over to the Legion of Honor

7) Go get some sour dough bread at Boudin Cafe

8) Check out the murals in the Mission district and grab a burrito

9) Have some yummy sweets at Tartine bakery

10) Go to MOMA

11) Head down to Fisherman's Wharf on the Cable Car

12) Go to the Exploratorium

13) Take in a Giants game

14) Go to the Academy Arts and Science

15) Go to a Symphony

16) Head over to Coit Tower and check out the view

17) Walk the Golden Gate Bridge and head over to Sausalito

Just a few suggestions. Feel free to add more.

I was at deYoung museum yesterday afternoon. The sun finally burned through the fog/marine layer in the afternoon. So. I strolled around the area after leaving the museum and ended up catching the #44 bus in front of the Academy of Sciences. (I used public transit for the museum excursion) I stopped by the Cinderella Bakery/cafe' on the way home. https://cinderellabakery.com/


Day before, I made an excursion to this pasta shop that opened in the Inner Richmond Dist,,,,,yum
https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/res...o-17844219.php

[MKTwet]

I've watched a lot of videos about SF, from someone that is outside looking in. I think nothing will change in SF until a huge economic turmoil when silicon valley is in recession then something will happen. As long as the taxes are rolling in, nothing will change. The 1% will live in their gated community and the rest of people will suffer. It's literally why the French Revolution happened.

[davdaven]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

I think nothing will change in SF until a huge economic turmoil when silicon valley is in recession then something will happen. As long as the taxes are rolling in, nothing will change.

This is exactly what is happening now. Large tech corporations laying off thousands of employees and trimming the outlandish benefits for those who are left. As SF's office towers are reassessed, expect the tax base to be in a world of hurt. Not to mention all the employee-based tax calculations. No worries, though, since SF could cut 30% or more of its current staff with no meaningful impact to 99.9% of residents. There are lots of silly city projects drowning in taxpayer money right now.

[Astral_Weeks]

San Francisco has had many booms and busts since the Gold Rush.

I was in S.F. in March 2023 and reports of its pending death are no doubt an exaggeration.

There are real challenges, no doubt. My 2 cents for reasons for optimism:

-SF voters dumped/recalled ideologue D.A. Chesa Boudin in 2022. The Mayor replaced her with the much more pragmatic Brooke Jenkins.

-Office to Residential Conversions: Yes, this is often physically and financially hard to do. However, a SPUR and ULI study found that 40% of office buildings in downtown SF are good candidates for conversion. That translates into roughly 11,200 housing units. Not a bad start. More conversions can occur with more incentives.

-NYC's Financial District was written off after 9/11. It took time but they transformed that area into a desirable residential/mixed-use area with parks, retail and residential.

-Transforming city centers post-Zoom/Work From Home will take time but it will occur. Downtown SF looks bad now in part because there are so few workers relative to 2019.

-The physical and architectural beauty of SF is something the city will lean into: the Mayor is pushing for the creation of a downtown arts, culture and entertainment zone.

[MKTwet]

Originally Posted by davdaven

This is exactly what is happening now. Large tech corporations laying off thousands of employees and trimming the outlandish benefits for those who are left. As SF's office towers are reassessed, expect the tax base to be in a world of hurt. Not to mention all the employee-based tax calculations. No worries, though, since SF could cut 30% or more of its current staff with no meaningful impact to 99.9% of residents. There are lots of silly city projects drowning in taxpayer money right now.

I don't think it would change that quickly, maybe once a good chunk of tech moves out of the bay area. Even with layoffs the companies are still profitable and paying taxes. The companies have to pay unemployment benefits and it is still taxed. So it takes awhile for workers to work elsewhere away from the bay area.

It also takes a lot of time for businesses to trim enough workers to hurt the tax base. While most techies are laid off, a lot of tech millionaires still lives there and paying taxes. Wait until the stock market takes a huge dump then we shall see.

[davdaven]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

I don't think it would change that quickly, maybe once a good chunk of tech moves out of the bay area. Even with layoffs the companies are still profitable and paying taxes. The companies have to pay unemployment benefits and it is still taxed. So it takes awhile for workers to work elsewhere away from the bay area.

It also takes a lot of time for businesses to trim enough workers to hurt the tax base. While most techies are laid off, a lot of tech millionaires still lives there and paying taxes. Wait until the stock market takes a huge dump then we shall see.

SF runs a two-year budget cycle. A deficit is already identified for the next one, which is currently in development. There will likely be enough office tower reassessments to have an even bigger impact on the subsequent budget cycle. SF has a business tax that is based at least in part on headcount, so with all off the layoffs and relocations, I'm sure we'll start seeing impacts soon. Keep in mind that something as simple as Meta moving employees from San Francisco to Menlo Park will impact SF's finances, as they are different cities.

[blameyourself]

Originally Posted by MKTwet

I've watched a lot of videos about SF, from someone that is outside looking in. I think nothing will change in SF until a huge economic turmoil when silicon valley is in recession then something will happen. As long as the taxes are rolling in, nothing will change. The 1% will live in their gated community and the rest of people will suffer. It's literally why the French Revolution happened.

Pretty much everyone I know in the area would disagree with your statement. "Suffer" is quite the exaggeration.

[sav858]

Hilton SF Union Square, Parc 55 owner stopping payments on loan, firm announces

"This past week we made the very difficult, but necessary decision to stop debt service payments on our San Francisco CMBS loan," commented Thomas J. Baltimore, Jr., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Park. "After much thought and consideration, we believe it is in the best interest for Park's stockholders to materially reduce our current exposure to the San Francisco market. Now more than ever, we believe San Francisco's path to recovery remains clouded and elongated by major challenges - both old and new: record high office vacancy; concerns over street conditions; lower return to office than peer cities; and a weaker than expected citywide convention calendar through 2027 that will negatively impact business and leisure demand and will likely significantly reduce compression in the city for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately, the continued burden on our operating results and balance sheet is too significant to warrant continuing to subsidize and own these assets.

[TheGoodUsernamesWereTaken]

Originally Posted by AnythingOutdoors

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...p-17846412.php

I'm not interested in people just hating on SF. If you just want to snipe then please go elsewhere. I've been concerned for a number of years, before the pandemic even, about the issues SF faces. Every city has problems, but it felt like the tech boom breed complacency. IMO, the number one issue SF (and the broader Bay Area) faces is an acute shortage of affordable housing. Homelessness is likely a result of lack of affordable housing. Onerous permitting and planning has tied the city in knots, both preventing new housing but also stifling businesses. Crime is also an issue, though I think this is often overstated, and there's a separate SF crime thread, so maybe leave that to its own thread.

I'd like to see more urgency among elected leaders in re-imagining what the city can be. Clearly, just hoping for a return to the pre-pandemic tech boom is wishful thinking. It ain't happening. At least, not without a lot of very intentional (and perhaps even undesirable) incentives to lure companies and their workers back to in-person offices.

This seems like a great opportunity to make SF more inclusive, more socioeconomically diverse. Convert office buildings to mixed used residential-retail. Make a lot of these small, efficiency apartments that are affordable by design. Make some loft/art studio units, would be great if artists could afford the city again. Convert some of the space to shelters and transitional housing.

While the challenges facing SF seem large and foreboding, I'm optimistic that this could end up being good for the city. It could increase economic diversity away from homogenized tech culture, with more folks thriving other than tech bros in Patagonia vests. But I think this will require courage for a new vision of the future along with a willingness to embrace change.

Oh, and BART... the political will likely doesn't exist in Washington to bail out BART if it comes to that. The state needs to be ready to step in. I get that CA is facing budget woes at the moment, so if the money can be found elsewhere then maybe it's time to pause spending on the High Speed Rail and redirect those monies to local transit agencies. It just seems odd to prioritize a speculative new system connecting two smaller cities in the Central Valley while established transit systems that are (in comparison) highly used go to waste.

"Just hating SF". "Sniping".

I love how emotionally invested you are in this cesspool and mockery of a city, that you actually think the hate SF and their delusional champions get is anything short of warranted.