NYC to San Francisco - Job Market + Real Estate ? ? (Oakland: apartments, foreclosure)

[BreukelenMeisje]

I am a NYS-licensed, junior attorney who graduated from law school in 2007, and my fiancé is at the VP-level in finance. I recently resigned from my small (and quite awful) law firm, and, last week, my fiancé was laid off from his job. Having suddenly found ourselves both unemployed, having each lived in NYC for close to a decade, having grown tired of NYC life, and knowing that the NYC economy will be trending downwards at least through 2009, we have decided that now is as good of a time as any to leave NYC. We are considering five domestic cities - San Francisco, Boulder, Denver, Chicago, and DC.

Our primary concern with remaining is the supersaturation of attorneys in the NYC job market, and the consequential poor job prospects for junior attorneys, like me, with few years of experience behind their belts. We are also concerned with the steady decline of job opportunities for both attorneys and financial managers in NYC. That said, what should we expect of San Francisco vis-à-vis job prospects in 2009, generally, and also vis-à-vis the legal and financial industries, specifically? What’s the word on the street? Stable? Trending upwards/downwards? Hiring freezes, layoffs?

Our secondary concern is our quality of life in NYC and the cost of living. We currently own our 1-bedroom/1-bath home in Brooklyn Heights and are way tired of paying 250ish% of the national average for the ridiculously small roof over our heads. We would like to upgrade to a 2-bedroom/2-bath to accommodate for children within the near future, but don't want go belly up in doing so. Should we expect real estate in San Francisco to be on par with that in NYC, or should we expect it to more expensive, slightly less expensive? Should we expect apartments to be relatively the same size as those in NYC, or slightly larger? Any thoughts real estate and living in Oakland? Marin?

Also, if anyone has additional and relevant info. about Boulder, Denver, Chicago, and DC, I’d appreciate that info, as well. I’m also happy to answer questions about NYC (and particularly questions re: where "it" is at in Brooklyn).

Thanks!

[bigdave01]

I would guess that San Francisco real estate would be on par with NYC; however, Oakland would be a great option. Oakland real estate seems to have been hit hard and you can buy houses or apartments for relatively cheap. Look into neighborhoods such as: Rockridge, Temescal, Lake Merritt area, Piedmont, etc.

Unfortunately I really don't know much about the job market.

I really think that Chicago would be a great choice. Real estate in Chicago seems so cheap for what it is, it is a great city.

[hsw]

Economy and jobs for finance and law will be bleak in any major financial center like SF or Chicago...NYC is likely far worse, as it's epicenter of the global meltdown...

Chicago has prob best-balanced overall economy in world...lots of finance and law, but much general industrial, consumer and healthcare industry

City of SF depends upon financial industry, and SiliconValley is rather dependent upon the tech and financial industries

Doubt any smart financier would want to buy a house in SF region for next few yrs....prices are just beginning to fall in upscale areas....as many layoffs start; employees' stock/option holdings plummet in value, etc....same phenomena as NYC region on smaller, more delayed scale

COL is much cheaper in either SF or Chicago than in Manhattan....would guess rents of comparable newer condos are some 40-50% cheaper in SF (realize that many condos in SF incl underground pkg spots, in-unit W/D, etc).....Chicago is some 50% cheaper than NYC rents...and Chic has some of best new condo towers in US (a glut of supply....and Chic towers tend to incl all the modern amenities that SF even lacks, like competent HVAC)

CA has a 10% state income tax....IL has 3% state income tax

IMO, given its superb weather/topography and the ability of SV to continually attract smart, ambitious people, would argue SF/SiliconValley offer greatest overall QOL/COL balance in world....in any economy

[esmith143]

There is a broad range of options in SFBA as far as real estate goes. Cheap places aren't good and good places aren't cheap. Oakland is mostly cheap but not a place where you'd want to live. Marin is excellent but very expensive.

If you are going to work in San Francisco proper, a house with good neighborhood schools within reasonable commuting distance would cost you from $800,000.

I'd strongly consider Denver, your dollar would go a lot further. But with your skills you should be able to afford SFBA as well.

[fsufezzik]

I live in San Francisco right now and I work in finance downtown. I know that there's basically a hiring freeze at my firm, so I would say that job prospects for the near term aren't great.

Incidentally, I'm planning to move to Denver in a few months, with the same firm, and it's by choice. I love San Francisco, but I'm ready to be a homeowner, and that just hasn't been realistic in San Francisco due to the high cost of good homes. Denver is MUCH more affordable. I don't know much about the job market there, other than the fact that my job will be there.

And what little I know from researching Denver indicates that Boulder isn't really far away; I wouldn't think of it a separate place to consider.

[mdwstrnkid]

Originally Posted by fsufezzik

And what little I know from researching Denver indicates that Boulder isn't really far away; I wouldn't think of it a separate place to consider.

Having lived in Boulder for six years, I think that Boulder is quite different from Denver. It's far more liberal than Denver and has a bit of a small town feel. The COL is also considerably higher than it is in Denver and its suburbs.

The cost of housing in SF varies quite a bit from neighborhood to neighborhood. By and large, it's cheaper than Manhattan, but I don't really know how expensive Brooklyn Heights is. How much are you looking to spend for a 2BR/2BA place?

[gatorman]

Chicago would be a good choice because of COL and abundance (in normal times) of prof jobs, both in finance and law. Low cost of living there would enable you to live in your choice of many cool neighborhoods.

There is indeed a glut of good new condos in Chicago- and many are in very good areas near downtown. You could rent a great place for a reasonable amount or look into picking up a foreclosure.

SF rents are much higher than Chicago's. Oakland is often looked at as a 'cheap' alternative that is close to SF. I now live in Oakland and like it very much, but also recognize I'm worlds away from SF in terms of overall city vibe and available lifestyle. If that's what you're looking for I'd recommend SF over Oakland.