Learn the truth about San Francisco, from a Native (Sacramento: house, purchase)

[jman650]

Originally Posted by bellalunatic

Yeah. We were just talking about this last night in regards to the dot-commies taking over SOMA and buying overpriced "urban lofts" right next to clubs and then having the clubs shut down due to the noise!
We were attributing MUCH of that attitude, (the total self-involved entitlement I'll park my car on the sidewalk so F.U. dot-commie) to a big reason why the once vibrant local live music scene died.
It's is harder for musicians to live and have a practice space in SF as well, since there are so few lock-outs left.
We were having this conversation at Slim's during a live show benefit for the SF Food Bank....but I think it ties into the above statements pretty well.

Yeah that sucks. That's exactly what I don't like. I love people from all over wanting to come out here and contribute something, like aspiring musicians. But these yuppies make that next to impossible. That's such a shame.

[Hossam E. Adel]

[SIZE=3]Dear friends,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Well first let me introduce myself, I’m just a simple Egyptian man who is planning a trip to your lovely City of SF for a convention that my wife will be attending in march and thought to ask the real ppl from the city as this will be our very first time to be in the States so will surely use the help of you good ppl as I’m planning to rent an apt for about 10 days as there might be a couple of friends joining us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]My main concern is that I need your opinion regarding safest areas, specially that my wife will be going out in the morning to the Moscone center and return in the afternoon and unfortunately I’m a heavy smoker and I know that a guy like me won’t have that fun smoking in a hotel therefore I rather to stay in a apt and enjoy my morning coffee with smoking there.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]I been through the net and wanted to take your opinion for a nice apt I looked at in “lower Pacific Heights” as they mentioned that its most desirable neighborhood?! is that true?![/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]And the fact is that I adore my wife and I’m kinda a over protective kind of men and asking you friends what will be better should I get a cab and drive her everyday or should I take public transportation,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Same goes for shopping as I think I will have nothing to do during those days other than shopping and exploring the city until the convention is over then we can both enjoy the city together.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]What is the shops or the malls closing time ?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Should I depend on public transportation in all my trips around the city ?![/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]It will be really highly appreciated and grateful to have the feedback from ppl who knows the city as I’m trying to enjoy this visit as much as I can [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Thank you all and wishing you a very nice sunny days (as I know its cold now and you surley can afford some nice sunny wishes from the land of the pyramids)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]here's my email jsut in case you needed to contact me direct [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]hossam.adel@egy.apachecorp.com[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]

[DeCoverley]

Originally Posted by clongirl

San Francisco used to have its wealthy area (Pacific Heights and Nob Hill, basically anything north of California Street) and the rest of the City was working class. Families, locally owned neighborhood stores, people knew their neighbors, diners, neighborhood bars etc.

The whole city is pretty much like a Disneyland for transient, young, and wealthy. Boutiques and fancy organic restaurants and wine/sake bars are everywhere now- it's just a big hip fashion show where everyone seems to be on display. It's not just Pacific Heights anymore..now its every neighborhood. My husband and I call it..Tir na nog..which is translates from Irish (the Land of Youth).

Now days the City seems very hostile to children, families, seniors (but not exclusively because of the cost). It's become so ridiculously ultra "PC" that having children is frowned upon, getting married is a no no (unless you're gay), and growing old is not cool. SF used to always be on the "liberal" side, but now it's downright hostile to the extreme. Now, most the native folk have pretty much left their City in search of a more real, down to earth place to live.

Interesting comments. The message in paragraphs two and three seem at odds to me. Yes, there are many yuppies here (though not in every neighborhood), but suggesting that SF is a big, hip fashion show is overstating it. Are they the ones responsible for the PC attitude? No, they are the ones who will eventually have children.

You then move on to the "hostility" toward children, families, seniors. etc, which I just don't see. Which groups/people are hostile?

Now, is it a piece of cake to raise a child here? No. Is it hostile? Not at all. (I have a 6-year old daughter). Again, you're overstating the case here.

I agree that San Francisco is very PC, abhorently so. I would suggest, however, that the ones having the most influence are the transplants who move here not for money, but because SF has become known as some sort of liberal paradise. I would guess that most of us who live here are engaged politically, but many of these ultra-liberal transplants move here specifically to "find their activist voice" as I heard one extremely vapid young woman say.

So you have the "transient, young, wealthy" mixed in with those "finding their activist voice", which are polar opposites. There is a lot in between. SF is a small city, yes, but its demographic is not that narrow.

[Lulu101]

I agree, I never saw that during my visit. I don't where people come up with these things.

Originally Posted by DeCoverley

You then move on to the "hostility" toward children, families, seniors. etc, which I just don't see. Which groups/people are hostile?

[clongirl]

I think that if you lived in San Francisco prior to the dot-com days and had children back then, then perhaps you might have a better understanding of what San Francisco used to be. I grew up in the Sunset and Richmond districts where there was much more diversity in all areas.. cultural, age, and economic.

If you are trying to suggest that the influx of people into San Francisco over the past 15+ years is very diverse economically and of varied ages, then I would say that you are flat out wrong. The majority of transplants DO move here for the money. Artists, musicians, actors , teachers, firemen, etc. cannot make enough to survive for very long once they do decide to "settle" for good and/or purchase a house for themselves.

I travel into the City frequently still and it's very apparent how much it's changed. At forty(ish!) I find it shocking now days how my husband and I are often the oldest people in restaurants! There are no children or elderly around. (I'm not talkin' about fancy places either). Took one of my kids to the new Academy and surprisingly, very few kids!

Now, I'm not saying that San Francisco doesn't have diversity.. It's just a whole lot different than when I was younger. I know this might sound very odd, but I actually experienced more diversity in Sacramento, Oakland, and even one of the most remote areas in Ireland (I kid you not) in terms of age, different cultures, and varied socioeconomic status.

When you see boutiques and fancy restaurants in neighborhoods like the "Haight" or "Hayes Valley" then it's pretty obvious who has moved into the neighborhood and plans on spending any extra disposable income. Certainly not middle class families or immigrants.

I am glad that you have not had any negative experiences with raising one child in the City. I don't think that what I have experienced for myself is really unique because everyone I have met since I moved out of the City (mostly ex-San Franciscans) have experienced a similar vibe. Perhaps you have just been lucky or don't notice? I dunno, I've got a few kids now, and I'm painfully aware when I get the "look" or tisk/tisks from people that I suspect (I'm guessing here) see me as mother earth destroyer/cause of the downfall of man?

[Lulu101]

If there's discrimination, it's against people wiht more than one child. Once you have a double stroller you start blocking sidewalks, or when you take it in the drug store and block the whole aisle, it pisses people off

Originally Posted by clongirl

I think that if you lived in San Francisco prior to the dot-com days and had children back then, then perhaps you might have a better understanding of what San Francisco used to be. I grew up in the Sunset and Richmond districts where there was much more diversity in all areas.. cultural, age, and economic.

If you are trying to suggest that the influx of people into San Francisco over the past 15+ years is very diverse economically and of varied ages, then I would say that you are flat out wrong. The majority of transplants DO move here for the money. Artists, musicians, actors , teachers, firemen, etc. cannot make enough to survive for very long once they do decide to "settle" for good and/or purchase a house for themselves.

I travel into the City frequently still and it's very apparent how much it's changed. At forty(ish!) I find it shocking now days how my husband and I are often the oldest people in restaurants! There are no children or elderly around. (I'm not talkin' about fancy places either). Took one of my kids to the new Academy and surprisingly, very few kids!

Now, I'm not saying that San Francisco doesn't have diversity.. It's just a whole lot different than when I was younger. I know this might sound very odd, but I actually experienced more diversity in Sacramento, Oakland, and even one of the most remote areas in Ireland (I kid you not) in terms of age, different cultures, and varied socioeconomic status.

When you see boutiques and fancy restaurants in neighborhoods like the "Haight" or "Hayes Valley" then it's pretty obvious who has moved into the neighborhood and plans on spending any extra disposable income. Certainly not middle class families or immigrants.

I am glad that you have not had any negative experiences with raising one child in the City. I don't think that what I have experienced for myself is really unique because everyone I have met since I moved out of the City (mostly ex-San Franciscans) have experienced a similar vibe. Perhaps you have just been lucky or don't notice? I dunno, I've got a few kids now, and I'm painfully aware when I get the "look" or tisk/tisks from people that I suspect (I'm guessing here) see me as mother earth destroyer/cause of the downfall of man?

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by Lulu101

I agree, I never saw that during my visit. I don't where people come up with these things.

Excuse me.."Your visit"? Curious why you've got so much to say about something you know so little about? I dunno, I "visited" Paris but I don't comment about the general consensus of the populace or pretend to be an expert on the place.

[jzt83]

I agree with Clongirl about SF not being that diverse. SF doesn't have that many immigrants from other areas outside of China and Mexico. The city just doesn't have that international flair like you'd find in Oakland, LA, or NYC.

[ArthursChoice]

Originally Posted by lulu101

people say that about gentrification in every city. It's become a cliche by now.

And anyway, are you following me around on every thread now?

stalker!

[Perfect Stranger]

Originally Posted by jman650

Yeah that sucks. That's exactly what I don't like. I love people from all over wanting to come out here and contribute something, like aspiring musicians. But these yuppies make that next to impossible. That's such a shame.

God help me from taking the yuppies side, but isn't it too big an assumption to think that a musician necessarily contributes more to the city, the country or even the world? To be honest the world would be a better place if certain musician wannabes called it a day...