Graffiti and Tagging in San Jose (280) (Los Angeles: how much, live, cost)

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Unless...



San Jose's enduring eyesore. Ever inviting visitors to downtown.

Why the hell do they allow that to stay up there like that? If they want to stop this problem, they need to find the graffiti and cover it up immediately. Something like that took somebody a lot of time to do. They are not going to waste their time doing it, if it gets covered up right a way.

All of this type of tagging happens at night. So they need to have a graffiti patrol with paint trucks out every morning by 5AM, to find the new tags and make sure that every bit of it is painted over by 7AM.

It works in other cities. If the taggers don't even get a chance to see their own work in daylight, they are not going to continue doing it. Even if they do continue, nobody is going to see it. Problem solved.

[GioLM]

The problem with covering it up is instead we end up with mixed match gray beige and white paint that you can still see the original tagging through...spending a bunch of money for what? These patch work graffiti cover ups look 400 times worse than the actual graffiti.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by GioLM

The problem with covering it up is instead we end up with mixed match gray beige and white paint that you can still see the original tagging through...spending a bunch of money for what? These patch work graffiti cover ups look 400 times worse than the actual graffiti.

That should't be a problem if it is done right. The right color paint should be able to cover it up. Even if it doesn't look perfect, the important thing is to obscure their work, to discourage them from continuing to do it. NYC has pretty much solved their graffiti problem that way, or at least controlled it.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

Why the hell do they allow that to stay up there like that? If they want to stop this problem, they need to find the graffiti and cover it up immediately. Something like that took somebody a lot of time to do. They are not going to waste their time doing it, if it gets covered up right a way.

All of this type of tagging happens at night. So they need to have a graffiti patrol with paint trucks out every morning by 5AM, to find the new tags and make sure that every bit of it is painted over by 7AM.

Problem in this case and others has to do with who owns the property being defaced, and who is responsible for cleaning it up. Graffiti cleanup on the railroad tressel has proven to be a very complicated issue, involving many entities with no clear lead agency to make decisions...thus, we have an eyesore that never goes away.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Problem in this case and others has to do with who owns the property being defaced, and who is responsible for cleaning it up. Graffiti cleanup on the railroad tressel has proven to be a very complicated issue, involving many entities with no clear lead agency to make decisions...thus, we have an eyesore that never goes away.

In that case they should paint over it and then bill the property owner for the work.

[GioLM]

True NYC has significantly reduced visible graffiti, mostly in Manhattan, but they have done this using a "no tollerance" policy to go along with the other extreme measures the NYPD practices. Essentially anytype of small to large scale vandalism can be charged as a misdemeanor, and the offender could and usually does end up in jail for 3 days. I don't care how extreme your stance against minor vandalism is, but I cannot condone a police force and city government that takes such drastic measures for something so unimportant. Obviously the NYPDs agenda with this is to make more arrests, since number of arrests directly correlates with their hours and pay. And in the meantime those who are arrested now have a record a very large fine and a possible 3 say stint in jail...you think thats going to stop them? It's just going to encourage more anti authoritative sentiments and now you have the makings of a criminal.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by GioLM

True NYC has significantly reduced visible graffiti, mostly in Manhattan, but they have done this using a "no tollerance" policy to go along with the other extreme measures the NYPD practices. Essentially anytype of small to large scale vandalism can be charged as a misdemeanor, and the offender could and usually does end up in jail for 3 days. I don't care how extreme your stance against minor vandalism is, but I cannot condone a police force and city government that takes such drastic measures for something so unimportant. Obviously the NYPDs agenda with this is to make more arrests, since number of arrests directly correlates with their hours and pay. And in the meantime those who are arrested now have a record a very large fine and a possible 3 say stint in jail...you think thats going to stop them? It's just going to encourage more anti authoritative sentiments and now you have the makings of a criminal.

Well, you started out by saying NYC's laws have reduced graffiti. So that kind of kills your argument that arrests and fines aren't going to stop them. Interestingly enough some lawmakers in Singapore had the same theory as you though and so in addition to fines and jail time, they also introduced mandatory caning sentences. As the good Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew so aptly put it:

"... we have a society which, unfortunately, I think, understands only two things – the incentive and the deterrent. We intend to use both, the carrot and the stick. A fine will not deter the type of criminal we are facing here. He is quite prepared to go to gaol (jail), having defaced public buildings with red paint. Flaunting the values of his ideology, he is quite prepared to make a martyr of himself and go to gaol. He will not pay the fine and make a demonstration of his martyrdom. But if he knows he is going to get three of the best, I think he will lose a great deal of enthusiasm, because there is little glory attached to the rather humiliating experience of having to be caned."

Guess what? There's no graffiti in Singapore at all.

I am absolutely in favor of harsh punishments for graffiti which costs cities millions of dollars a year. I don't want to live in a city where vandals are free to make my home look like a third-world slum. Some day perhaps you'll own property. To paraphrase a previous poster above, imagine your delight in waking up to find your own property covered in graffiti.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by kdog

" But if he knows he is going to get three of the best, I think he will lose a great deal of enthusiasm, because there is little glory attached to the rather humiliating experience of having to be caned."

Not bad. I always wanted to see the public square stockades reintroduced. With rotten tomatoes.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by GioLM

True NYC has significantly reduced visible graffiti, mostly in Manhattan, but they have done this using a "no tollerance" policy to go along with the other extreme measures the NYPD practices. Essentially anytype of small to large scale vandalism can be charged as a misdemeanor, and the offender could and usually does end up in jail for 3 days. I don't care how extreme your stance against minor vandalism is, but I cannot condone a police force and city government that takes such drastic measures for something so unimportant. Obviously the NYPDs agenda with this is to make more arrests, since number of arrests directly correlates with their hours and pay. And in the meantime those who are arrested now have a record a very large fine and a possible 3 say stint in jail...you think thats going to stop them? It's just going to encourage more anti authoritative sentiments and now you have the makings of a criminal.

Vandalism is a crime and graffiti encourages other criminal activity including violent crime. Most graffiti is gang related. Why shouldn't it be dealt with extreme measures?

[jbunniii]

Originally Posted by GioLM

True NYC has significantly reduced visible graffiti, mostly in Manhattan, but they have done this using a "no tollerance" policy to go along with the other extreme measures the NYPD practices. Essentially anytype of small to large scale vandalism can be charged as a misdemeanor, and the offender could and usually does end up in jail for 3 days. I don't care how extreme your stance against minor vandalism is, but I cannot condone a police force and city government that takes such drastic measures for something so unimportant.

Nonsense - even small graffiti is expensive to clean up, probably on the order of hundreds of dollars. Someone stealing a similar amount of money from a liquor store would rightly spend a little time in jail. Why should graffiti be treated any differently?

What penalty do you think should be assessed if someone paints graffiti on YOUR house/car/other property?