Please tell me the truth: Is Palo Alto a "walkable" city? Is it dog-friendly? Is it vegan-friendly? (San Francisco: how much, luxury)

[silicagulcher]

Some how the term "Liberal Arts" and Stanford just seem strange.

Yes, Palo Alto is a great place and rather laid-back but it's an upper class "everyone here has got money or is connected " kind of laid-back.

Berkeley as one says "keeps it real" and is far more "liberal" and has that international college town feel , yet I sense an "edge" to the street life of Telegraph/south campus.

Both universities are at the cutting edge of science and technology.

I would consider living in North Berkeley for sure.

Also take a look at Strawberry Canyon, the road up the hill to Lawrence Hall of science. Great hiking and spectacular views of the whole bay.

Living on campus in either place is more bicycle than walking I would think. Especially if your on the other side of 30.

Perhaps you could consider the Mountain View area that is still in easy commute to Stanford.
Great Vegetarian Thai food at the end of Castro Street across the train station in Mt. View too!

Also as far as liberal arts private colleges, there is St.. Mary's College in Moraga, over the hills east of Berkeley. A great area and school.

Another note: There is also the factor of "good old boy" networking that should be the same for Berkeley as Stanford yet Stanford will always carry more money "pound for pound" than Berkeley.

Not an easy choice.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by 318

That's the tradeoff. Manhattan was also really exciting, but incredibly expensive. In contrast, Miami is not that expensive, but we are not liking it here. Conundrum!

Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it. My wife and I are planning a trip out there in April. I just think we really need to investigate with our own eyes at this point, and see how it feels. PA, Berkeley, and the surrounding towns.

My wife's main concern is that there is so much sprawl in the Bay Area, we could find a nice town, but then she gets a job 1 hour away, and whamo!, stuck in an hour of traffic every day.

I guess that is unavoidable....

Your concern about finding work near where you live is well founded. There is no single job center here, and even if you find a job close to where you live, it's always possible you'll end up unemployed and have to take another job an hour away. It's one of the things people don't like about living here.

[KarlaT2]

This is a very interesting thread. I hope the OP comes back to give his impressions of the areas after his trip.

[Radical347]

NO! For you...Berkeley. I am shocked at how many people think Palo Alto is the right place for you. I guess to each his own, but your post screams Berkeley all over it -- and behind that would be San Francisco. For one, in PA you'd be in right in the middle of the endless suburban sprawl that is Silicon Valley. The downtown area may be walkable, in the same way that parts of Miami are walkable, but PA is a far cry from what I'd consider a walking city. Public transit there, while available, is light years away from NYC...and even pretty far below SF and Berkeley. The only thing that you'd like is it's liberal, but so is the vast majority of the Bay Area. Vegetarian food is available...but Berkeley blows Palo Alto out of the water in that regard. (Heck, Berkeley even blows SF out of the water for vegetarian food.) Berkeley, while not 'cheap,' is still much more affordable than Palo Alto.

[318]

Thanks so much everybody. What I will say is that it is clear that Northern California has some really kind and educated people who are very generous with their time. My wife and I are planning on going to visit in May or June, although sadly we are probably going to be "forced" to stay in Miami for another year or two (for a couple of reasons). I know NYC was not right for us, and neither is Miami, but you do what you gotta do in the short term, I guess. I guess I have a vision of Northern California (and PA in particular) as this sort of paradise, which of course it cannot be, but I will keep everyone posted on what I do think of it when I go. Thanks again. BTW, There should be an honest, genuine thread like this for every major city, don't you think? I can't stand when the magazine rate cities and declare that Random City X is the "best" most livable city. Umm, duh, different people, different needs. Some crap magazine (Forbes?) ranked Doral (here in Miami) as the #2 most livable city. What a joke! Maybe if you are a 40something married Venezuelan couple with 2 kids and you love to eat meat and you work for the military (there's a HQ here); but not if you are a liberal vegetarian! I could go on and on.....

[Bhartiya]

Originally Posted by 318

Hi Everybody,

I recently discovered this site, and have found it to be very useful, with helpful and kind forum members.

I am 34 and at a crossroads in my life. After ten years living in Manhattan and working in advertising & marketing, my wife and I moved to Miami for a change of pace. I grew up in Miami (my parents still live here), and my wife loved it when we would come on vacation.

I had my concerns before we moved to Miami, but we were both tired of the high stress, tall buildings, constant commotion and noise, and extremely high cost of living in Manhattan. We don't have children, but we have two small dogs that need a lot of exercise, and I feared for their lives in Manhattan. I constantly felt they would get run over by a taxi or a bicycle messenger. I was also tired of the bitter cold, especially when walking my dogs an hour a day (or more). It was painful.

Miami seemed like a very good option, with the warm weather, lower cost of living, and less stressful lifestyle. Well, we have been here one year and we are very unhappy.

We can't stand the constant driving to get *anywhere*, the rush hour traffic, the infernal summers, and the lack of culture and education among the people of Miami. We are both vegetarians (my wife is a vegan), and there are simply very few options for us. Everything here is steakhouse, Cuban food, fast food, another steakhouse. Also, we have very progressive values, and find most Miamians to be quite religious/Catholic.

I am considering going back to school for a Master's degree in Liberal Arts, (after going through a mini-crisis where I now feeling advertising is just promoting more materalism and consumerism, exactly what we don't need more of in this world!), and would love to live in Northern California. At least, I think I would. Maybe I am idealizing it.

My impression of Northern California is that the people there are educated, progressive/liberal, not as stressed out as New Yorkers, but not as unsophisticated/religous as those in Miami. And that the weather is warm, but not too hot, perhaps a bit chilly, but overall fantastic. And that there is nature all around, and that people *appreciate* nature, and don't just want to tear it down to create strip malls and housing developments.

But is this true? Or would I be setting myself up for another major disappointment?

More than anything else, is Palo Alto walkable? Of course not as much as Manhattan, but is it doable? Is it vegan-friendly? Is it relaxed? (Or is it stressful, a mini-NYC as I read somewhere).

And, crucially, how expensive is it? I know it is expensive, but is it worth it? Could we rent a three-bedroom apartment for $2000 a month? $2500 a month?

Right now in Miami we pay $2100 for a small, beautiful house, 3 bedrooms, four baths, a small pool, a huge, brand new kitchen, in a gated community in Miami. Coming for a small two-bedroom in Manhattan, I thought it would be heaven -- but we are pretty miserable! My wife hates the driving and the suburbs. We both miss the culture of New York: the ethnic restaurants, the independent movie theaters, the art galleries, etc. We feel very isolated and alienated here.

Is Palo Alto the perfect mix of the two, the culture and education and walkability of NYC, and the warm weather of the South/West Coast?

I would like to live in Palo Alto proper, be able to walk to the Stanford campus (or take the bus), and be more or less in the center of the city. Not far away. We would like to be able to take our dogs to a dog park, a regular park, and to not be scolded or kicked out of stores for bringing our dogs. We would also like health food stores (very important!), and things to do.

Space is less important. We have plenty of space in our house here and are not happy. So would rent be $2500? $3000? $3000/mo would be too much, that is for certain.

This may be the longest post in the history of this forum, thank you for reading! I really appreciate your inside information, and your help.

Sincerely,
F

We will be moving to Palo Alto, too, and are facing the same dilemma - will the rent and the general cost of living too high there? Palo Alto has one of the best school districts in CA and that is very appealing to us. I looked up Craig's list and there weren't any 3 bedroom hoses/apartments displayed. There are some paid websites to look for houses/apartments but I am not sure how useful they really end up being.

[gone down south]

I'm a little late to the party, but would caution the OP to come check out the areas before making any decisions. Palo Alto has a 'downtown', but it's only one street and about 10 or 15 blocks long - and that's about the biggest downtown on the Peninsula. Berkeley is bigger, but IMO a bit shabbier/grungier (which could be a positive or a negative, I guess!).

Coming from NYC and Miami, you're going to notice a lot fewer options in every category. You won't have dozens of Thai restaurants to chose from, you'll have just a handful. One local movie theater, instead of 12. It's definitely small town living in many ways, which can be a culture shock to someone from a big city.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by gone down south

You won't have dozens of Thai restaurants to chose from, you'll have just a handful.

More than a handful on Castro St. in downtown Mtn. View.

[gone down south]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

More than a handful on Castro St. in downtown Mtn. View.

Thanks Captain Literal.

[AcroJimmy2]

What people have failed to mention is that Palo Alto has a lot of different sections. Midtown Palo Alto (around Middlefield and Colorado) tends to be a lot less uptight and more down to earth than downtown. Then there is South Palo Alto, which has more woodsy neighborhoods like Barron Park and, east of El Camino, there are the "circles" of East Meadow and several other more modest (yet still very expensive) neighborhoods.

Generally, the area of Palo Alto near downtown tends to be the most uptight and has a very different vibe than much of the rest of the city. Downtown is clearly the most walkable area, but there are several other walkable sections (especially mid-town).

Everything is expensive, though. You'll find modest 2-3 bedroom houses for 1+ million dollars. Ive heard of people renting 3+ bedroom houses in midtown/south PA for $3000/month, though. Its worth checking out and exploring. Like I said, make sure to check out neighborhoods outside of downtown as well.