Pavers over Concrete

[loves2read]

I don't know that you ALWAYS get cracking with concrete--that sounds too much like a disclaimer for bad work--
concrete cracks for a reason--
if you have a pool and your concrete topping is cracking you might start to have problems with the pool cracking as well--
depending on reasons for the cracking--
ground shifting, bad drainage, poor concrete quality/pour, too little reinforcement for concrete decking-
those are all reason why concrete can crack

over time ground shifting and the water level in the ground are likely to cause almost any concrete patio to crack
pavers over cracked concrete are likely to suffer from the same problems eventually--using a packed sand base is supposed to allow for drainage and ground shifting w/o causing upheavals in pavers

[Harbor Hopper]

Originally Posted by loves2read

I don't know that you ALWAYS get cracking with concrete--that sounds too much like a disclaimer for bad work--
concrete cracks for a reason--
if you have a pool and your concrete topping is cracking you might start to have problems with the pool cracking as well--
depending on reasons for the cracking--
ground shifting, bad drainage, poor concrete quality/pour, too little reinforcement for concrete decking-
those are all reason why concrete can crack

over time ground shifting and the water level in the ground are likely to cause almost any concrete patio to crack
pavers over cracked concrete are likely to suffer from the same problems eventually--using a packed sand base is supposed to allow for drainage and ground shifting w/o causing upheavals in pavers

I say again, you will ALWAYS get cracking with concrete. You will never show me a single driveway, house foundation, patio, seawall, etc etc etc that doesn't have a crack in it after one year (of before). I'm not talking about large cracks. I'm talking about the tiny hairline cracks. It is impossible to avoid.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by loves2read

I don't know that you ALWAYS get cracking with concrete--that sounds too much like a disclaimer for bad work--
concrete cracks for a reason--
if you have a pool and your concrete topping is cracking you might start to have problems with the pool cracking as well--
depending on reasons for the cracking--
ground shifting, bad drainage, poor concrete quality/pour, too little reinforcement for concrete decking-
those are all reason why concrete can crack

over time ground shifting and the water level in the ground are likely to cause almost any concrete patio to crack
pavers over cracked concrete are likely to suffer from the same problems eventually--using a packed sand base is supposed to allow for drainage and ground shifting w/o causing upheavals in pavers

You WILL ALWAYS get cracking in Concrete!
The fact that you don't know it - won't change the fact that you do.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by Big House

You WILL ALWAYS get cracking in Concrete!
The fact that you don't know it - won't change the fact that you do.

I know that sounded rather firm, but having been in construction my whole life, and having dealt with Quality Control Inspectors from the Corp of Engineers, and LANTDIV with the Navy (their counter part to the Corp. of Engineers), I have had serious arguments with them, when they find hair line cracks in concrete slabs and want to argue that it is premature failure or "disclaimer for bad work". I always won those arguments, and had to bring in experts from the Concrete industry to inspect and review the work we performed. I always won those arguments and it always brought on even more tightly watched and other arguments from the inspectors who wanted to find something to nail me with. Guess what! We received recognition from Congress for the Neighborhood of Excellence project that we built.

So, I may have reacted firmly when I saw this statement about the disclaimer. But, you should google it so you know that it is a fact, not a disclaimer.

And, there are many things that can be done, some of which I mentioned in my statement about controlling where the cracks are most likely to occur.

[509revo]

The previous owner of our home {a TILE MAN!} installed tile on the driveway, which is concrete. He SHOULD have known that the expansion joints are there because ... concrete expands when the sun heats it up {IT MOVES!!}. So, now there are broken tiles directly above the expansion joints which can NEVER be fixed, because of the MOVEMENT from expanding during the daytime and contracting when the sun goes down.
It's WORSE where the ground freezes.
This isn't speculation, it's a fact.

[Big House]

Originally Posted by 509revo

The previous owner of our home {a TILE MAN!} installed tile on the driveway, which is concrete. He SHOULD have known that the expansion joints are there because ... concrete expands when the sun heats it up {IT MOVES!!}. So, now there are broken tiles directly above the expansion joints which can NEVER be fixed, because of the MOVEMENT from expanding during the daytime and contracting when the sun goes down.
It's WORSE where the ground freezes.
This isn't speculation, it's a fact.

I don't know where you are located, so I can't predict how much heave you will have in the wintertime when the ground freezes. But Tile are brittle and have little if no flexural strength, so although it may look nice initially, it is bound to be a failure - if you are in an area where the ground moves much (freezes to various degrees in the winter, and heats to various degrees in the summer). If you are really south were the ground doesn't freeze, then a middle of the road solution may be to have the tile removed along the expansion joints and any contraction (keyway) joints that may have been installed (where concrete is expected to crack through a controlled / designed in process), and have the tiles cut along those lines. That way if the concrete moves it will move where the joints are between the tiles. Those joints you should use a really good polyethylene sealant that can expand and contract with the joints and keep the water from entering those cracks.

That is about all you can do. If you remove them all they have pretty good concrete like materials that you can apply over the concrete and still have a nice finished look.

[cofedav]

hey big house send me an email dave cofedav@sbcglobal.net from joliet IL lake michigan fisherman