Red Tide that bad??? (Miami, Okeechobee: gardening, office, radio)

[beach43ofus]

Just returned from St. Armands circle. No respiratory issues, but water was dark again. No dead fish.

The sailing regatta was in full swing.

I'm so ready for this to end. We have company coming down in 3 weeks, so it had better be gone by then...or else!

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Just returned from St. Armands circle. No respiratory issues, but water was dark again. No dead fish.

The sailing regatta was in full swing.

I'm so ready for this to end. We have company coming down in 3 weeks, so it had better be gone by then...or else!

One Meteorologist said Nov. is the most "popular" month for Red Tide....he seemed to know his basic stats. He also said it usually wanes in December which is what I have to hope for. Usually I'd be down (fly down and back) for 10 days in Nov. but I'm not doing that this year largely due to the environment.

[beach43ofus]

I've never seen any water testing sample data from the water being released from Lake O into the 2 channels that flow out to to the seas.

I know the lake level, and water realease volumes are made public, but what's in that water?

I've heard its high in nutrients (like nitrogen & phopshorus). How high? How does Lake O's water quality compare to other large inland bodies of water? Is it better, or worse? How would it compare to common storm runoff?

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

I've never seen any water testing sample data from the water being released from Lake O into the 2 channels that flow out to to the seas.

I know the lake level, and water realease volumes are made public, but what's in that water?

I've heard its high in nutrients (like nitrogen & phopshorus). How high? How does Lake O's water quality compare to other large inland bodies of water? Is it better, or worse? How would it compare to common storm runoff?

1. About 4X as high as they want it to be - and even the "want to be" lets 1,000 or more tons of phosphorus into the Lake.

2. No such thing as common runoff. Good Sewer systems and mitigation can vastly improve these things in many areas - while others may have leaky septic tanks, etc.
Remember, this concentrates in the lake and watershed - it's somewhat captive. Runoff...runs off.

3. The theory/damage being proposed with Lake O have many complexities. First, there is the nutrient level...which pollutes the lake itself and makes vast amounts of algae and other plants flourish there. Then that sludge is artifically released into two canals (east coast and west coast) which lead into rivers - so those coastal rivers get BOTH the extra nutrients and the plant life they already fed in fresh water. The mess then enters the brackish and salt water whereas the plants die...and what happens to dead plants (compost, etc.?) - yep, they turn into nutrients! So now the added nutrients are joined by more nutrients created by the sun, warm water and nutrients.......

You can't put your finger down and say "ah, if only we reduced nutrients into Lake O" because one action is unlikely to fix much. IMHO, the largest single fixes would be to undo those canals and Lake O not get anywhere near the coasts except once filtered south through the everglades. That was the way it was naturally.

[beach43ofus]

craigiri said "the largest single fixes would be to undo those canals and Lake O not get anywhere near the coasts except once filtered south through the everglades. That was the way it was naturally."

Environmentalists said that was killing the Everglades, which is why they dug the chanels. Wherever the dirty water goes, its going to do harm.

Thus, I'd like to get further upstream to the sources...sugar, livestock, phosphates, septic tanks, & runoff.

Nobody ever mentions dogs, cats, & horses...our eco system is having to deal with waste from millions of pets.

[Dry509]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

Just returned from St. Armands circle. No respiratory issues, but water was dark again. No dead fish.

The sailing regatta was in full swing.

I'm so ready for this to end. We have company coming down in 3 weeks, so it had better be gone by then...or else!

Yeah..we are waiting for it to end so we can come down too. Dang it.

[craigiri]

Originally Posted by beach43ofus

craigiri said "the largest single fixes would be to undo those canals and Lake O not get anywhere near the coasts except once filtered south through the everglades. That was the way it was naturally."

Environmentalists said that was killing the Everglades, which is why they dug the chanels. Wherever the dirty water goes, its going to do harm.

Thus, I'd like to get further upstream to the sources...sugar, livestock, phosphates, septic tanks, & runoff.

Nobody ever mentions dogs, cats, & horses...our eco system is having to deal with waste from millions of pets.

I assumed much of the sugar lands were going to be bought back (those to the South) and therefore less dirty water and more filtration

But, yes, they had plans drawn up and maybe even work started all the way up to Orlando. There was a big spread in National Geo about it many years back and I (not being in Florida then) assumed it was all underway. I didn't know until this Red Tide mess that they froze it and rolled it back....really will be 8-10 years behind where the article original said it was.

[beach43ofus]

Well, we got rid of 1 politician who was taking Sugar money (Nelson), and now we need to get rid of the other one...Rubio.

[srq57]

Sadly, it's
NOT looking any better:

Meteorologist Bryan Bennett
November 7 at 7:44 PM ·
☠(RED TIDE UPDATE – NOVEMBER 7)☠ It's been over a year since this red tide event began in southwest Florida. Unfortunately, it’s still going strong with no immediate signs of dissipating. See the details below for the county by county status & forecast:

-------------------------------
COUNTY BY COUNTY:
-------------------------------

➡️ PINELLAS COUNTY (GETTING WORSE): In Pinellas, it’s mainly the central and southern beaches that are in bad shape. The northern side of the county isn’t doing too bad. Water samples taken today are showing high karenia brevis in Pass-A-Grille, Gulfport, Redington Shores, John’s Pass, Belleair Beach, & Indian Rocks Beach (IRB). Redington Shores measured 20 million karenia brevis cells per liter of water. That is 200 times the amount required to kill fish and start noticing respiratory problems.

When you get north of IRB the water starts to improve. Clearwater Beach only has low k. brev.

Additionally, there is an extremely dense bloom that extends about 16 miles offshore of southern Pinellas County.

➡️ MANATEE COUNTY (GETTING WORSE): The most recent water samples are showing high levels of karenia brevis along most Manatee beaches. The water doesn’t get any better as you head away from shore. There is an extremely dense algae bloom that extends 10-15 miles west of Bradenton Beach & AMI.

➡️ SARASOTA COUNTY (NO MAJOR CHANGES): No major changes for Longboat Key, Siesta Key, & Venice with medium to high levels of karenia brevis. No changes (since my last update) isn’t necessarily a good thing as the water quality is poor. Though, the offshore water isn’t quite as toxic & dense with karenia brevis as areas offshore of southern Pinellas & Manatee County.

➡️ CHARLOTTE COUNTY (GETTING WORSE): The latest water samples are still showing higher levels of karenia brevis creeping into Placida Harbor & Gasparilla Sound. Satellite images are showing an 18 mile wide area of sporadic red tide stretching offshore from area beaches. This offshore bloom is growing in girth, but is not as dense as the bloom offshore of southern Pinellas County.

➡️ LEE COUNTY (REMAINING STEADY): As of the latest water samples, most of the beaches around Captiva, Sanibel, & Fort Myers Beach are doing okay with only background karenia brevis concentrations. Though, there is an area of algae growing offshore of Sanibel Island. This bloom will have to watched carefully as a prolonged westerly wind could dramatically raise karenia brevis at Sanibel beaches. The water offshore of Fort Myers Beach is still only showing low levels of karenia brevis. So, for now, Fort Myers seems to be okay & is a little farther from the offshore bloom that is expanding adjacent to Sanibel.

➡️ COLLIER & MONROE COUNTIES (SLOWLY GETTING WORSE): The latest water samples are showing low concentrations of karenia brevis along several Naples beaches. Of greatest concern is a large and rapidly growing toxic algal bloom developing just offshore of Marco Island. Wind direction will play a big role in whether this bloom ends up making it closer to shore.

➡️ EAST COAST OF FLORIDA: Overall, the Atlantic beaches continue to improve. Though, there are still a few coastal areas where red tide continues to linger. The latest water samples are showing low to medium karenia brevis concentrations along parts of Brevard and Martin Counties.

------------------------------------------------
GULF BEACHES 7-DAY OUTLOOK:
------------------------------------------------

➡️ AIR QUALITY:

-Thu (Nov 8): Bad air quality

-Fri (Nov 9): Bad air quality

-Sat (Nov 10): Okay air quality

-Sun (Nov 11): Good air quality

-Mon (Nov 12): Good air quality

-Tue (Nov 13): Bad air quality.... Avoid the beach if you have breathing difficulties as we'll have strong onshore winds

-Wed (Nov 14): Okay air quality

➡️ ALGAE MIGRATION:

-Thu (Nov 8): Algae moves west (away from the beach)

-Fri (Nov 9): Algae moves north

-Sat (Nov 10): Algae moves south

-Sun (Nov 11): Algae moves west

-Mon (Nov 12): Algae moves west

-Tue (Nov 13): Algae moves north

-Wed (Nov 14): Algae moves south... Strong currents will help northern Pinellas improve, but could result in worsening conditions in Manatee & Sarasota (especially with that dense offshore bloom).

-----------------------------------------
GULF BEACHES LONG TERM:
-----------------------------------------

➡️ LONG TERM: As mentioned, November is the most likely month of the year to experience red tide on Gulf Beaches. There has been red tide on the Gulf coast 9 out of the past 18 Novembers. On the other hand, only 3 of the past 18 Decembers have had red tide. So, historically, our best chance for red tide to start to diminish would be in December.

The optimal water temperature for karenia brevis growth is around 72 degrees. We would normally expect the algae to start disappearing in December due to cooler Gulf temps, but we’re currently experiencing near record air temps which could help this bloom linger longer. Additionally, it is a huge bloom that is about 180 miles from north to south. So, it could take longer for this bloom to dissipate.

Bottom line: I am hoping to start seeing improvement in December, but we need to be prepared that this toxic mess could linger into 2019.
No automatic alt text available.

[beach43ofus]

Mote's report are aweful for today as well.