Tempers Flare at Savannah City Council (Macon, Montgomery: fit in, real estate, 2014)

[Newsboy]

Profanity and insults hurl during Savannah council meeting. This is the best entertainment in town!

Tempers Flare at Savannah City Council - Local news, weather, sports Savannah | WSAV On Your Side

VIDEO: Tempers, profanity flare during Savannah City Council hotel debate | savannahnow.com

[counterclockwise]

That's just plain funny.

[WanderingImport]

It's embarrassing is what it is.

A city the size of Savannah shouldn't have crap like this happening. Leave that to the smaller podunk towns.

[masonbauknight]

I don't find funny in the least. Savannah's City Council is largely split along racial lines, and is volatile from the get-go. How one member would resort to the "a-hole" level in 2014 really is pretty low. Yes, the intense emotions in the recent City Council voting are understandable (more high-rises in the Historic District make my blood boil), but City Hall is becoming a middle-school lunchroom. Not good.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

(more high-rises in the Historic District make my blood boil)

What high-rises?

The only ones in Savannah are the Westin across the river, First Union Bank building and the DeSoto Hilton. Even those are hardly high-rises.

Everything else is mid-rise.

High-rises can be done in downtown. They just need to fit in with their surroundings and YES, it can be done provided those silly height restriction ordinances are discarded.

What really needs to happen is for height to be addressed on a case by case scenario.

I'm ALL for preserving our history and what makes Savannah's tourism run, but lets not hold Savannah back..

Before ANY of that can happen though, I say once again, lets get these CLOWNS out of office!

[DanielAvery]

I've always wondered why the folks who want to build such mid-rise/high-rise buildings won't just build on the southside and keep the HSF folks' blood pressure in check.

Unfortunately, none of these people would have an ounce of power if folks didn't vote for them. Repeatedly.

[masonbauknight]

@W.Imp. I don't want Savannah to look like downtown Augusta or Macon. I'm in the minority (especially after the recent Council vote), but I think mid-rises and high-rises (any future tall, modern structures) are as bad for downtown Savannah as double-decker buses and filming zombie movies in Colonial Park Cemetery. Thank God those last two great ideas were voted down at City Hall -- I actually thought they would pass with flying colors in City Council.

"Case by case basis"! In the South? You can't be serious. There's no such thing. When it comes to business and commercial interests, it's all or nothing. Now there will be more tall, modern structures in what is still a 19th-century cityscape. It's wrongheaded.

[Newsboy]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

@W.Imp. I don't want Savannah to look like downtown Augusta or Macon. I'm in the minority (especially after the recent Council vote), but I think mid-rises and high-rises (any future tall, modern structures) are as bad for downtown Savannah as double-decker buses and filming zombie movies in Colonial Park Cemetery. Thank God those last two great ideas were voted down at City Hall -- I actually thought they would pass with flying colors in City Council.

"Case by case basis"! In the South? You can't be serious. There's no such thing. When it comes to business and commercial interests, it's all or nothing. Now there will be more tall, modern structures in what is still a 19th-century cityscape. It's wrongheaded.

Again, a 6-story building is NOT a "high rise." And even so, that height applies only to specific blocks where other buildings of similar height already exist -- not the entire district. Nobody is going to build 6-story buildings on Broughton, or Jones, or on Forsyth Park. Most of the entire length of Bay Street, including all the new hotel and condo construction that's gone up in recent years, meets this height. Ditto new construction on River Street, MLK, and West Montgomery.

Because of the restrictive nature of Savannah's historic footprint (small, narrow blocks), new developers MUST be allowed some height variance in order to make projects economically viable. A hotel developer isn't going to spend millions of dollars on a prime piece of real estate on Bay or River Street, for example, if they can't get enough rooms in the structure. And the only way to get more rooms is to go UP! Every new hotel that's been built in the past two decades has followed this formula. Basically, no building can be taller than those adjacent to it. In most cases, this means 6-story hotels (with at least two levels of underground parking). The Holiday Inn Express at Bay and Abercorn managed to squeeze 8 guest room floors plus a 9th-floor rooftop pool into its design, but the building is the exact same height as the adjacent Hampton Inn which is just six stories.

On River Street as well, new buildings can't be higher than those adjacent. The Bohemian is in fact shorter than the neighboring Hyatt, but still manages to accommodate 9 floors because the designers made good use of space between floors. Both the new hotel going up on East River Street (on the old Savannah Power property) and the one Kessler is planning for West River Street (on the old Power Plant site) will be 6 stories as well, which is higher than was previously allowed in either of those zones. But without the height variance neither hotel could have been profitable. And even then, they will not be higher than the other buildings already on River Street and will appear shorter than their counterparts on Bay Street because of the lower elevation.

HERE'S HOW THE HEIGHTS LOOK ON BAY STREET: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0823...8YgYzQOGpQ!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0814...YDdFn-Osig!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0802...hZFIhOn4tA!2e0

HERE'S WHERE THE NEW KESSLER HOTEL IS GOING:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0836...LmhWVZiEoA!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0829...QCaj-Pqw-w!2e0

HERE'S WHERE THE NEW EAST RIVER STREET HOTEL IS GOING UP:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0792...0pHNq2mXNQ!2e0

A NEW 8-STORY STUDENT HOUSING COMPLEX (6 residential floors on top of 2 parking levels) IS NEARING COMPLETION HERE:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0834...N8eJSb5KBA!2e0

What the City Council is doing is smart business. They're making amendments to the zoning codes to allow for development that otherwise wouldn't happen without it. And it's not a blank slate either; the East River Street hotel project went through a lengthy and laborious vetting process before meeting final approval. The Kessler project is going to be a HUGE boon to downtown and turn an ugly, forgotten end of River Street into a major destination -- hotels, shops, restaurants.

And yet, some people would rather just see an abandoned power plant rot there forever I guess?

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by masonbauknight

@W.Imp. I don't want Savannah to look like downtown Augusta or Macon. I'm in the minority (especially after the recent Council vote), but I think mid-rises and high-rises (any future tall, modern structures) are as bad for downtown Savannah as double-decker buses and filming zombie movies in Colonial Park Cemetery. Thank God those last two great ideas were voted down at City Hall -- I actually thought they would pass with flying colors in City Council.

"Case by case basis"! In the South? You can't be serious. There's no such thing. When it comes to business and commercial interests, it's all or nothing. Now there will be more tall, modern structures in what is still a 19th-century cityscape. It's wrongheaded.

Augusta or Macon? Eww. I don't want Savannah to look like either city as well. If you think those two cities have actual high-rises, I think you made a bad comparison.

Modern structures? I didn't say anything about that in my previous post. I specifically said as long as they fit in with their surroundings. Now that you mention it though, even modern structures can be done. Look at the Jepson Center. It is a modern masterpiece in the middle of older architecture. Our city is a showpiece of brilliant architecture from mainly the 19th century. Just like the 1950's building (the name escapes me) on Liberty near the Hilton, modern can become new history. The same could be said of modern architecture today. It will eventually become history. I stand by what I said as far as any building fitting in with their surroundings however.

Yes, height should be done on a case by case basis....AFTER we get these numbskulls that can't act appropriately out of office. Or at least get somebody inside city hall that has knowledge on how to properly run a city. I guess those are basically the same thing.

PS & FWIW, if you've never been to Boston or New Orleans, I recommend going...especially Boston. Both cities have modern structures alongside their history. Those cities are not "wrongheaded" and still maintain their beauty and charm.
Now, before anyone gets the wrong idea here, let me be clear again and say I don't want Savannah's unique charm compromised, therefore, despite being "pro high-rise" or whatever, I would want ANY structure to fit in with its surrounding..and NOT be another Boston or NOLA. ...I hope I haven't confused anyone at this point.

[WanderingImport]

Let me also add this as food for thought... Because of the height ordinance, there is no height variety. As Newsboy mentioned, each building may not be taller than it's neighboring structure. Sure, it may be shorter, but the investor wants to maximize profits and will more than likely seek the highest he/she can get.

Yeah, there are differences the further south you go. Buildings on Broughton Street may not be taller than buildings on Bay Street. There are fluctuations throughout the district, but then there are also clusters of buildings of the same height in the same area. Anyone understand where I'm going with this?