Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The problem is Downtown Seattle is a little downtown with high concentration of criminals/homeless people roaming the streets with nothing to do. They need all the police and security to make themselves known to reduce the attacks on pedestrians and tourists alike. The area across the street from Westlake mall, which has quite a few colorful naked bodies, has become a haven for thugs and wackos. I like the downtown when it was lively and safe with Pioneer being where the actions took place with mellow homeless people being polite and not bothering people. Westlake Mall was the place to shop with Nordstrom and other department store being on 3rd st. Boy, 3rd Street has gone donehill. Seattle used to be fun downtown with all the local friendly people and absolutely no homeless people beyond Yesler or Pioneer Sq. and in few occassions, the waterfront area. Seattle still has one of the smallest big city downtowns in the U.S.. It's certainly smaller than NY, SF, LA, Houston, Philly, Boston and Chicago.
The problem is Downtown Seattle is a little downtown with high concentration of criminals/homeless people roaming the streets with nothing to do. They need all the police and security to make themselves known to reduce the attacks on pedestrians and tourists alike. The area across the street from Westlake mall, which has quite a few colorful naked bodies, has become a haven for thugs and wackos. I like the downtown when it was lively and safe with Pioneer being where the actions took place with mellow homeless people being polite and not bothering people. Westlake Mall was the place to shop with Nordstrom and other department store being on 3rd st. Boy, 3rd Street has gone donehill. Seattle used to be fun downtown with all the local friendly people and absolutely no homeless people beyond Yesler or Pioneer Sq. and in few occassions, the waterfront area. Seattle still has one of the smallest big city downtowns in the U.S.. It's certainly smaller than NY, SF, LA, Houston, Philly, Boston and Chicago.
I don't know what you're smoking, but...can I have some?
That Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame, I went inside. Big deal. What that had got to do with the roughness of the area. It sure is nothing to write about. Seattle's downtown is cleaner, relatively, thanks to Seattle Downtown Ambassador and cleaning crue, but it's not safe and not all that cosmopilitan like other major cities. It has along way to go. There are very few housing in the downtown core to support a 24hr district, other than 11 highrise condos/apt in the downtown frame area.
It's interesting, because the downtown ambassador and I recently visited the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the downtown frame area, and it certainly was nothing to write about.
It's interesting, because the downtown ambassador and I recently visited the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the downtown frame area, and it certainly was nothing to write about.
You see, I wasn't smoking anything. We both agree that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame wasn't anything to write about, just like the whole downtown. There's not much to do in this downtown, other than strolling through Pike's Market and shop at the retail core. Yeah, there is a symphony hall and museum of art as well as the main library. There even some upscale restaurants and wine bars, but that's about it. You have to go to Capitol Hill, Ballard and other neighborhoods to go for the actions. Downtown Seattle shuts down shortly after 8pm, and its Pike Market shuts down at 5:30pm. I guess I prefer Bellvue, Wa over downtown, and this is the region's to go to for the hot spots. It's kind of sad. Not the one I remember of Seattle of 1990 when downtown was the hot spot.
Seattle is a relatively new city, but by no means is it one of America's most recent big cities. In 1940, Seattle had 368,000+ people. At that time, Phoenix had 65,000, Vegas had 8,000, Dallas had under 300K, Portland had 305K, numerous other Sunbelt cities had way, way fewer.
Also, by 1960, Seattle had nearly 560K people - so I doubt there are many people who can remember when Seattle was a small town comparable to Boise (in fact, Seattle had 237K in 1910, which is bigger than Boise currently)
Seattle has been a big city for a while, albeit it now has more of a big city feel. But I don't think your explanation really hits the mark. Yes, population has grown in recent decades, but not on an exponential level. It's more the workforce that has changed, and the culture of the city.
I agree - Seattle's increasing sterility is more about the shifting economy and more corporate culture than the population increase.
That was the main thing that made my return to Seattle in '08 such a let-down; the city that I'd grown up in, that I had such fond memories of, that I always plugged to people, was totally gone.
There were a few times where I talked to someone at work or out and about who asked where I was from, and I would generally say something like, "Oh, I'm actually from here - I was raised in Ballard, back when it was just Swedish people, before the townhouses invaded" and would get a few yuks - unless, that is, they were people who had moved to Seattle in the last ten years and were part of the People's Townhome Revolution.
I remember going to Swedish bakeries and delis with my parents to get cold cuts, blew every allowance of my childhood at American Eagle hobbies... all gone. The first time I went after I moved back, I was shocked that only Olsen's was left; my sister came to visit me from Boston and wanted to go, and it turned out that we missed Olsen's closing by two days. The racks and fixtures were still inside. At least the Majestic Bay is still there...
The Twin Teepees, gone. Guido's Pizza, gone. New businesses, houses, etc. have replaced the old ones, and a new Seattle has grown up within the framework of the old one. To someone who's never set foot in Seattle before and is casually coming through, it'll look a lot like what they expected. To someone who grew up there, left, and returned - at least, to me - it looked like a rough caricature of the city I grew up in.
It really reminds me of McMansions that you see here in California, these pseudo-Mediterranean-style places with goofily-large red tile affectations and obviously-mass-made bronze water fixtures from Home Depot: lots of browns and greens, but purposely made to look that way, rather than a mechanation of being part of a working middle-class neighborhood in a Northwestern city. It's like Play-Skool toys, where everything is bigger and goofier and less-defined than real life, lacking any sharp or rough edges that anyone could hurt their fingers on.
But moreso than just the aesthetics, it was the people that had changed. The place was less welcoming than before, less adventurous and edgy and experimental. It seemed like all of that experimentation led to the decision that it was better to be risk-averse and not rock the boat. The adventurous progressiveness that I grew up with had evidently moved on elsewhere, and because of that, so did I, once again. I don't think that the fact that the dilution of what made neighborhoods desirable or notable in the first place is a positive thing at all; it may have made for many happy worker bees, but at the cost of the very character that made it appealing in the first place.
You talk about a lack of authenticity, that's Beverly Hills to a T. Funny how you would complain about Seattle loosing its luster when in reality it is undergoing changes that will lead it to become a more world class cosmopolitan city rather than a "big little town" in the northwest with not much industry. I may be biased but I find seattle to be 10x more inviting and vibrant than Portland but I suppose that's because I like places that are a bit more well developed metro areas with a more vibrant dynamic.
I'm sorry, but each neighborhood in Seattle definitely has its own flavor and you'd have to be nearly comatose to deny that. Sure there has been an influx in hipsters, yuppies, working worms, suburbanites, etc, but that is the case EVERYWHERE. Personally, I think it's less dominant in Seattle and at least some of these transplants have contributed to its development.
Beverly Hills and the LA area in general remind me of a cultural wasteland while I believe Seattle still has true character and authenticity. Street after street in LA looks the same, there are many areas deviod of eclectic mom and pop places, local shops, etc, and on top of that you have to deal with pretentiousness and decadence as a result of the nouveau rich and fame hungry transplants. Sure, there are creative enclaves in LA (Abbot Kinney for example), but you have to hack through layers and layers of crap to get there. To top things off, downtown seattle is clean and fairly vibrant, downtown LA is a total wash. You can talk about renovation all you want, but give me a break.
I am biased in my love for seattle but I think for you to make these claims from your decadent enclave in Beverly Hills is kind of lame.
Positive: People are making more money, investing billions into the area, spreading money throughout the region, and white collar jobs are being created.
Negative: Natives who didn't want to join in the corporate rat race and feel their incomes become less adequate for maintaining their quality of life are forced to join it.
For those not aware, Seattle was inundated with so much real estate progress so quickly, there was no chance for it to stay flavorful as it was- and it all happened within about the last ten years. Add to that a draconian social push that would make John Calvin of Geneva blush with pride... and you have this weird development where people who once knew the city as it was waking up to realize it was being gentrified into some new place with new-school corporate-progressive attitudes (and perquisite nanny-ism to lure the perfect employee that dwells in perfect habitats working in perfect ergonomic workspaces). That happens when you take a fishing center with a blue-collar aerospace/defense contractor as its brand-name employer and make it into a tech hub virtually in 10 years (please remember that the PC wasn't mandatory to own until about ten years ago and the internet was just a fun hobby that was thoroughly dispensable).
For those who would like a visible contrast, go visit Kirkland, west of Market Street between Heritage Bay Park and Juanita Bay Park. You may use Google Maps if you'd like. Specifically, go to the corner of 14th Ave W and 5th Street W. Proceed up 14th and look at the east side of the street and compare it to the west side of the street. A few years ago, when I saw THAT... THAT is what happened, culturally and socially, to Seattle and the area. Mcmansions with porticoes and three-car garages versus the old single-family ramblers that were there before. No place can compete with such raw progress and it has happened everywhere that has seen development and the shift to a service-based economy. Everyone else got high-density condos and 'townhomes'. From blue-to-white collar in a massive shift in just @ 10 years!
[They are even putting in sidewalks!]
Local identity has been lost, neighborhood flavor and 'cool' personalities have been priced out or sold out or left. Sorry, but when Seattle had less office drones the people were just more likable, friendly and earthy. The culture was 'hip' without the digital faux grace.
I think Seattle has changed tremendously in the 21 years I've been here. I remember reading Jean Godden & Susan Paynter writing about Seattle homeless bums returning lost wallets and doing other good deeds. That was what I loved about Seattle when I first moved here, but sadly those days are gone.
35 years ago people moved to Seattle because it was a pretty place that was kind of hip and creative and had cheap housing. It doesn't have cheap housing anymore, and while there are still creative people around, many more people are moving here because of jobs in the tech industry, not to live cheaply as an artist. On the plus side, however, is the fact that there are now a bunch of places to get good pizza. 35 years ago there were just a couple.
Seattle is still a place where people move to get cheap housing, if they work in the information industry.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
