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Old 12-15-2014, 10:24 PM
 
1,359 posts, read 2,483,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
Just a couple of thoughts:
The OP stated that in Seattle, the income of black households fell 13% from 2012-2013. That seems impossible to me. How? I'm not arguing that there isn't income inequality here, or racism. Or that blacks have it harder or easier than anybody else. Just that there's something more to the data than we're seeing. To simply state that the decline in black household income in Seattle is a result of racism doesn't really explain it. I want to know what's really going on. Did wealthier black families leave Seattle either because property taxes got too high, or because they bought their houses 40 years ago, and there was too much money to be made by not leaving? Many Seattle neighborhoods did not allow blacks to live in those neighborhoods, some as late as the 1960's. The neighborhood which allowed blacks, the Central District, was never exclusively black. In fact, one of the co-founders of the local Black Panther party was a Japanese American. But back to the question: How, specifically, are black households making less money?
The answer to the question is in the original article. The chart that was originally posted came from the following article:

As Seattle gets richer, the city's black households get poorer | FYI Guy | Seattle Times

As to why the decline happened, note that the article itself gives the answer:

Despite changes in the CD, Seattle’s overall black population has held steady in number, at around 47,000. But the composition of that population changed dramatically with the arrival of a new wave of émigrés from Africa — particularly Ethiopia and Eritrea — who settled mostly in Rainier Valley. In 2000, just 13 percent of blacks in Seattle were born outside the United States. Today, it’s 30 percent. Many of those immigrants are low-wage workers, which has contributed to the overall decline in income for black households here.


In short, African-Americans and Afro-Latinos largely left the city proper in the years preceding the housing crash (that is, the area south of 145th and north of Roxbury), though they did not go far. There are sizable black communities in the White Center area, Federal Way, Renton, Kent, and especially in the Tacoma/University Place area. Of the many African-Americans that I know that did buy homes, none of them bought in the city proper largely because it was too expensive. Older people who bought years ago also sold and left (often to follow their children out and collect a tidy sum in the process).


The African-Americans and Afro-Latinos that left were replaced by immigrants from East Africa. That is why the "black" population did not change numerically. All three of these groups are considered "black" for Census purposes, yet all three groups have very different cultural legacies.


The gentrification that is now affecting white folks in Capitol Hill and the Central District is part of a longer cycle that saw African-Americans and Afro-Latinos leaving those areas back in 2002 to 2008 as housing costs rose before the crash. The folks that moved in during those waves are now being affected by the Amazon influx of the past 2 years.

 
Old 12-16-2014, 09:11 AM
 
3,695 posts, read 11,378,276 times
Reputation: 2652
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-data-forum-84 View Post
Aside from Seahawks players, the black upper class seems non-existent in King County. It's the dying black middle class that's moving to Renton, Tukwila and Federal Way. And I don't think anyone will agree with you that neighborhoods in south KC are better than Capitol Hill, Ballard, West Seattle, or even Greenwood. Seattle neighborhoods have the best walk scores, public transport, new restaurants and retail - the stuff that makes neighborhoods great. Bigger (houses) isn't better. Would you take a spacious 3 bedroom house in Renton over a view-tastic 1000 sq ft. LEED condo at Insignia?
Since I have a kid, I'll look at the house in Renton. Raising her where there are no decent schools for her, no convenient and inexpensive grocery stores nearby, and where getting her to soccer games and music lessons becomes orders of magnitude harder because of constant traffic issues sounds terrible. It also puts us a lot closer to the Cascades and Mt. Rainier, which is another advantage.

I much prefer a quieter, more suburban environment now that I have a family. When I was 22 I would have leapt at the Insignia.
 
Old 12-16-2014, 11:38 AM
 
9,618 posts, read 27,360,346 times
Reputation: 5382
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaiunmei View Post
The answer to the question is in the original article. The chart that was originally posted came from the following article:

As Seattle gets richer, the city's black households get poorer | FYI Guy | Seattle Times

As to why the decline happened, note that the article itself gives the answer:

Despite changes in the CD, Seattle’s overall black population has held steady in number, at around 47,000. But the composition of that population changed dramatically with the arrival of a new wave of émigrés from Africa — particularly Ethiopia and Eritrea — who settled mostly in Rainier Valley. In 2000, just 13 percent of blacks in Seattle were born outside the United States. Today, it’s 30 percent. Many of those immigrants are low-wage workers, which has contributed to the overall decline in income for black households here.


In short, African-Americans and Afro-Latinos largely left the city proper in the years preceding the housing crash (that is, the area south of 145th and north of Roxbury), though they did not go far. There are sizable black communities in the White Center area, Federal Way, Renton, Kent, and especially in the Tacoma/University Place area. Of the many African-Americans that I know that did buy homes, none of them bought in the city proper largely because it was too expensive. Older people who bought years ago also sold and left (often to follow their children out and collect a tidy sum in the process).


The African-Americans and Afro-Latinos that left were replaced by immigrants from East Africa. That is why the "black" population did not change numerically. All three of these groups are considered "black" for Census purposes, yet all three groups have very different cultural legacies.


The gentrification that is now affecting white folks in Capitol Hill and the Central District is part of a longer cycle that saw African-Americans and Afro-Latinos leaving those areas back in 2002 to 2008 as housing costs rose before the crash. The folks that moved in during those waves are now being affected by the Amazon influx of the past 2 years.
Thanks. This article relates:
Gentrification, Integration or Displacement?: The Seattle Story | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed
The OP claims that the influx of refugees from Africa does not explain the drop in income. But it does seem to. The median income among African Americans in Renton is higher than in Seattle, and there are far less immigrants from Africa. I'm not black, but did the same thing that many Seattle black folks did.
Sold the house in the CD, and moved to Renton.
 
Old 12-17-2014, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,877 posts, read 25,187,651 times
Reputation: 19104
Quote:
Originally Posted by c-data-forum-84 View Post
Aside from Seahawks players, the black upper class seems non-existent in King County. It's the dying black middle class that's moving to Renton, Tukwila and Federal Way. And I don't think anyone will agree with you that neighborhoods in south KC are better than Capitol Hill, Ballard, West Seattle, or even Greenwood. Seattle neighborhoods have the best walk scores, public transport, new restaurants and retail - the stuff that makes neighborhoods great. Bigger (houses) isn't better. Would you take a spacious 3 bedroom house in Renton over a view-tastic 1000 sq ft. LEED condo at Insignia?
No. I'd take the yuppie condo and sell it and buy two houses in Renton. $350/400k can buy you a nice house in Renton vs the "starting in the high $700ks" the upper floor units in Insignia go for. The damn mortgage on a decent house isn't all that much more than the HOA payment on one of those view-tastic yuppie condos.

Last edited by Malloric; 12-17-2014 at 01:33 AM..
 
Old 12-17-2014, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Nashville
3,533 posts, read 5,836,793 times
Reputation: 4718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No. I'd take the yuppie condo and sell it and buy two houses in Renton. $350/400k can buy you a nice house in Renton vs the "starting in the high $700ks" the upper floor units in Insignia go for. The damn mortgage on a decent house isn't all that much more than the HOA payment on one of those view-tastic yuppie condos.
A good choice.. And, most of these bloated, undersized, over-hyped condos/apartments being built in Seattle by giant corporate housing firms are very poorly made and many built with the lowest cost materials. They may finish the units with some nice looking appliances and materials to mask the exterior, but most of these places are very poorly built to maximize the profits of these giant firms as much as possible. Basically, you are paying for the location and views, not really the quality of the lodging. Many of the homes built will be built up to much higher standard and have stricter code enforcement since they are individual partitions of property.

I hear nothing but gripes about the corporate housing that is now dominating the rental market in Seattle and the surrounding suburbs. Basically, these giant corporations could care less than dirt about their tenants and only care about maximizing the profits. Also, these units are always more expensive and inferior in quality to what you would pay for from a privately owned home , duplex or a non-corporate condo complex.

Sadly, these giant mega-apartment/condo complexes have bloated Seattle's rental and real estate market and has resulted in the nicer properties, like houses to be priced astronomically. The crappiest little rambler in Northgate now will rent for over $2000 a month.
 
Old 12-17-2014, 02:37 AM
 
1,359 posts, read 2,483,594 times
Reputation: 1221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
No. I'd take the yuppie condo and sell it and buy two houses in Renton. $350/400k can buy you a nice house in Renton vs the "starting in the high $700ks" the upper floor units in Insignia go for. The damn mortgage on a decent house isn't all that much more than the HOA payment on one of those view-tastic yuppie condos.
And now you know why so many people left!

A former co-worker of mine was telling me about his father, who owned a house near the Montlake area of Seattle. He sold the house for over $700,000 and bought a home in Tacoma in cash. A lot of people made a good bit of money and decided to skip off to suburban pastures just like him.
 
Old 12-17-2014, 09:25 AM
 
5,075 posts, read 11,084,733 times
Reputation: 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaiunmei View Post
And now you know why so many people left!

A former co-worker of mine was telling me about his father, who owned a house near the Montlake area of Seattle. He sold the house for over $700,000 and bought a home in Tacoma in cash. A lot of people made a good bit of money and decided to skip off to suburban pastures just like him.
Apparently not enough though. The houses in Montlake continued to go up in value, Tacoma... well, I know people whose houses are barely worth half what they were a few years ago. No demand.
 
Old 12-17-2014, 01:47 PM
 
9,618 posts, read 27,360,346 times
Reputation: 5382
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkarch View Post
Apparently not enough though. The houses in Montlake continued to go up in value, Tacoma... well, I know people whose houses are barely worth half what they were a few years ago. No demand.
It depends where in Tacoma. Just like in Seattle, where demand for houses in Greenlake are not the same as for houses in Delridge, a house in Tacoma's Proctor district will sell much quicker and for much more money than a house on Tacoma's south side.
 
Old 12-17-2014, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,154,030 times
Reputation: 1771
Obama: As a black man he's been mistaken for valet | National & World News | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

Don't plakate yourselves too much..
Stereotypes if not racism are still a.highly relevant factor.
 
Old 12-18-2014, 09:29 AM
 
415 posts, read 491,285 times
Reputation: 616
I love how American progressives are always spouting their piety to "diversity." From what I can tell it's a very skin-deep notion of diversity. As long as the people of color are compatible with their bourgeois bohemian lifestyles consisting of SWPL like NPR and locally grown, organic and sustainable Whole-Foods (I'm gagging on the "organic" horse pucky I imagine every time I hear this). But what if the apparently diverse citizens actually have little in common with these BoBos? How do Black-Americans feel when surrounded by everything geared to cater to White BoBo or immigrant East African tastes? Perhaps our diverse neighbors of color prefer Burger King to Whole Foods or a traditional religion to a secular university education?

Dear Seattle Progressives,

If you cherish "diversity" as much as you claim, why do you prefer to segregate yourselves in neighborhoods concentrated among your own kind? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Your kids would have an excellent opportunity to get exposed to that valuable "diversity" in the public schools. You'll save a bundle on your mortgage if you get a home in a less expensive area. What's not to like?

For me I think diversity is very much overrated. In community you WILL find unity, if not necessarily diversity. What makes a community work is that unity and shared values. I don't really care what boat or plane you came in on or where you're from, if we all have shared civic values, we'll all invest and contribute our efforts and creativity to making great community institutions and schools. Indeed diversity may be more of a challenge than an asset. From my experience, for some reason, the more "diverse" neighborhoods I've inhabited showed lower degrees of trust and community for whatever reason. I don't know why. Maybe it's different languages, different values, different traditions, etc. It was a shame, but my sense was that something was missing, warmth perhaps; anything but tight-knit. Perhaps all the strangers perceived their neighbors more as "others" than as "brothers."
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