Judges Complaining About "Frightening Atmosphere" Around King County Courthouse (Seattle: real estate, 2015)

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

Even if the police just cleared it out and didn't allow bad behavior, or even just had a presence it could make a difference. Just tolerating it makes it grow exponentially. When they station police on 3rd and Pine, it's amazing how cleared out it gets of the drug dealers and street people.

This is really becoming a quality of life issue downtown.

Which just moves it somewhere else. People will be mugged on Second or Occidental rather than Third Avenue. I can remember, many, many moons ago, when the cops ran the whores and pimps off Jackson - they just went to Pike Street. When they ran them off Pike, they went to Aurora and Pacific Highway South...

Any real solution will require MONEY. I favor a carrot and stick approach, but neither carrots (treatment, services, and resources, including housing assistance and job training, for non-violent petty criminals) nor sticks (fines and imprisonment for violent and habitual criminals) are free. Many complaining here are unwilling to pay for either.

[dozerbear]

Councilmember Larry Gossett said he didn’t like the idea of power-washing the sidewalks because it brought back images of the use of hoses against civil-rights activists

How can power washing a sidewalk be compared to the civil rights movement? I wonder if the councilman can stand the sight of someone watering their garden.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by dozerbear

How can power washing a sidewalk be compared to the civil rights movement? I wonder if the councilman can stand the sight of someone watering their garden.

Well, I guess if civil rights means letting mentally ill people rot in the streets without treatment, sure I guess.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Which just moves it somewhere else. People will be mugged on Second or Occidental rather than Third Avenue. I can remember, many, many moons ago, when the cops ran the whores and pimps off Jackson - they just went to Pike Street. When they ran them off Pike, they went to Aurora and Pacific Highway South...

Any real solution will require MONEY. I favor a carrot and stick approach, but neither carrots (treatment, services, and resources, including housing assistance and job training, for non-violent petty criminals) nor sticks (fines and imprisonment for violent and habitual criminals) are free. Many complaining here are unwilling to pay for either.

They need to be given housing. The people who are there are never going to be able to make enough money to live in Seattle. Working people without mental illness or addiction can't even afford it. Someone who's walking around screaming at themselves isn't likely to land a six fig job at Amazon to buy themselves a condo.

[Blondebaerde]

A strange analogy indeed.

I'm an early bird and this year in particular I've been downtown Seattle a lot, sometimes not long after dawn. It's an interesting time of day, rather post-apocalyptic in that on a Sat or Sun morning you could roll a big marble down 2nd Avenue from maybe Marion to Smith Tower and it wouldn't touch nary car nor pedestrian. Even the bums seem to be asleep until at least 7am.

So I sometimes watch store owners power wash the sidewalks, in financial area (3rd) and Belltown and Pike Place and Queen Anne. Solves the problem...the stink... for one more day, and you don't want to be nearby and inhale that aerosolized (whatever) that's being thrown up from the spray.

They don't power wash the bums in the process, though...? I would and with citrus or soap once they were in county jail for vagrancy, along with delousing powder, but hey: just my $.02.

[tickyul]

Third offense could be a harsh sentence.........deferred of course if the offender voluntarily "participates" in a bus-ticket-relocation-program, you come back in less than a year, you get the harsh sentence.

[CityWok]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

They need to be given housing. The people who are there are never going to be able to make enough money to live in Seattle. Working people without mental illness or addiction can't even afford it. Someone who's walking around screaming at themselves isn't likely to land a six fig job at Amazon to buy themselves a condo.

Actually it's the opposite. We need to stop giving them housing. Seattle is already very generous and helpful to the homeless. Looks at where it's gotten it. More and more homeless moving here. More crazies. And record theft.

[Scrat335]

If people repeatedly break the law, they should be arrested and jailed. The reality, however, is that felons and crazies are piling up outside the jail and courthouse because it is full inside. Cops see no point in arresting someone for a "nuisance" crime when they'll likely be out the next day. They also don't want to mess/stink up their patrol cars or risk a needle stick over a paltry offense. Not enough people complaining about this are willing to pay more taxes to build and staff a larger courthouse and jail (most just want to cut taxes) or train and hire more police, which means that for each one going in, by and large, one has to be let out, often the same one.

My thinking is that non-violent petty criminals should be diverted, if willing to accept treatment and services, which, however, requires that treatment and services be funded and available, while violent and habitual criminals should be arrested, jailed, and tried, which requires enough "room at the hotel", so to speak. The problem can be substantially solved, but not without raising and dedicating sufficient revenues to do it. This is actually the more economical course over the longer run, but too many people are too high on their moral high-horses to afford it.

Courts and jails aren't going to do anything. What you need to do is get the people there into a batter environment. A lot of those people want to quit but can't. The better part of down town has convenience stores, some mom and pop a couple of 711s. They all sell booze in large quantities. Matter of fact it may be the only way they make a profit is by selling alcohol. Hows an alcoholic living on the streets of Seattle supposed to get off booze if it's on every corner? How are drug addicts going to get clean when what they need is freely available all over the place?

Merchants are going to get lawyers and have sway in city hall. Money is power. We have never made so much as a dent in the illicit drug supply and as a matter of fact it's gotten worse. First we need to separate the predators from their prey. Screw the merchants, take away the liquor licenses. I've personally witnessed a clerk at the market on Occidental selling booze to obviously inebriated people. One of which was a woman of about 30 who was obviously not homeless. It was 4 in the afternoon.

Drug dealers. Go Stalin on them, all of them. Even the politicians children. Shoot them on the spot. Suspend all rights across the board. If you're even suspected of dealing drugs you're guilty until proven innocent. Terrorize the drug dealers. Every last one.

To solve this problem its going to take spine and people are going to have to give up some rights and things could get ugly. I don't see another way.

[CrazyDonkey]

I don't think giving an apartment to every homeless person is viable. For one thing, affordable housing is disappearing, through rent inflation, tear-downs, and renovations, at a rate faster than we're adding it. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be building affordable housing, but just that we'd be even worse off, if we don't.

What we need to do is create flexible 24-hour shelters and tent/mini-house camps that can function as springboards to employment and regular housing, by accommodating not just singles, but couples, families, and pets, providing wrap-around services and resources, privacy, storage, mail boxes, laundry, kitchens, etc., and with camps providing power, potable water, sanitation, garbage/trash pickup, communication, and transportation.

I'm not opposed to providing bus, train, or even plane tickets to people wishing to go elsewhere, since other cities (SF and Portland, for instance) are doing so, sending people here. People do come here in hopes of jobs and housing that never materialize, getting stuck here as a result, without the means to leave.

[GraceKrispy]

I get off the bus right there to walk to one of my jobs. I used to get off a few streets away, but it's even sketchier there-- especially because the times I work are less populated on the streets, so I stand out a lot more. I've never had any real problems, but I have certainly had a few encounters that were concerning and I feel lucky they didn't turn into something more serious.

I don't know what the answer is. All I know is that whatever we are doing isn't working. And the alley between the haves and the have nots just seems to widen.