Proposed study would consider tolling downtown Seattle streets to reduce congestion (Burien: 2014, construction)

[CrazyDonkey]

Proposed study would consider tolling downtown Seattle streets to reduce congestion

Tolling has proved effective at reducing traffic in a number of European cities, and an 18-month experiment in the Puget Sound region, 15 years ago, showed that raising prices on drivers would have dramatic effects on traffic in the region.

Most recently, New York City has begun to talk about tolling in the most congested areas of Manhattan, after a similar plan was scrapped a decade ago.

“Places around the country are starting to have what I would say are the beginnings of conversations about this and politically it’s a really hard conversation to have because nobody really likes tolls,” O’Brien said.

“At the same time, there aren’t very many tools that have been proven to work around the world, and I think it’s important that this be part of that conversation.”

Applying congestion pricing in the Downtown core (east of I-5, south of Lake Union, and north of Holgate Street?) would divert traffic further to the east (Boren, Broadway, 15th, and 23rd).

They should alternatively look at a city-wide toll applied only to non-Seattle residents driving into Seattle, it seems to me. This would make sense in that much of the traffic diverted from the Tunnel will be from commuter trips from outside Seattle.

That O'Brien and other pols of the "McGinn Wing" of local Dem politics supported the "Surface Only" option for replacing the Viaduct can't help but bring up suspicions of hypocrisy here, in that it would have dumped all of the Viaduct's traffic onto Downtown's surface streets, rather than just traffic avoiding the Tunnel's tolls.

The current recommendation for Tunnel tolling would be "$1 tolls 24 hours per day with a $1.25 toll during the 6 to 9 a.m. and 3 to 6 p.m. peak periods":

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Via...March_2014.pdf

This would allow the Tunnel to act as a pressure valve, in that increased congestion would be an incentive to pay the toll and bypass Downtown, keeping traffic moving and avoiding gridlock.

If congestion pricing is applied to the Tunnel, however, it would dump more traffic the higher the tolls, counteracting the "pressure-valve" effect, in the interest of higher through-speeds during peak "rush" periods, but at the cost of increased gridlock on Downtown streets.

[Hemlock140]

Most days I take the bus, but when I drive I take 99 from Elliot/Battery to the stadiums, then I90 bridge. The traffic on 99 is stop and go, barely moving even at 2-2:30pm until the exit for Atlantic, after that I have little traffic getting onto I90. What that tells me is that most of the traffic is continuing on to the south, commuters headed to South Seattle, Seatac, Burien, Des Moines. If they are coming from Amazon/SLU they will likely use the tunnel and pay the toll, but those of us coming from Belltown/Waterfront/Interbay will not, we will be having to use surface streets like Alaskan Way, 1st or 2nd Ave, or perhaps get onto I5 south to I90. WSDOT/SDOT staff know this, and it would not surprise me if they came up with tolls to make up for the shortage they will experience to pay for the tunnel. Yes, there is going to be gridlock, even after all the construction has been completed, the tunnel opened, viaduct removed, and waterfront renovated.

[Flightoficarus87]

My guess is that the tolls are coming to the surface level streets, whether we like it or not.

Right now I don't have to commute to downtown itself for work, but assuming I don't move next year/take a new job in DT, thankfully there is pretty easy bus service to downtown nearby.

[homesinseattle]

At first glance, thought this thread said "trolling downtown" .

[HuskyDawg]

Companies need to catch up to technology and allow more remote work. There's no need most days for many of us to be forced to sit in hours of traffic, pay tolls, pay gas, pay parking. I'm more productive on days I work from home, and I'm online a lot earlier when I'm normally sitting in traffic.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

Most days I take the bus, but when I drive I take 99 from Elliot/Battery to the stadiums, then I90 bridge. The traffic on 99 is stop and go, barely moving even at 2-2:30pm until the exit for Atlantic, after that I have little traffic getting onto I90. What that tells me is that most of the traffic is continuing on to the south, commuters headed to South Seattle, Seatac, Burien, Des Moines. If they are coming from Amazon/SLU they will likely use the tunnel and pay the toll, but those of us coming from Belltown/Waterfront/Interbay will not, we will be having to use surface streets like Alaskan Way, 1st or 2nd Ave, or perhaps get onto I5 south to I90. WSDOT/SDOT staff know this, and it would not surprise me if they came up with tolls to make up for the shortage they will experience to pay for the tunnel. Yes, there is going to be gridlock, even after all the construction has been completed, the tunnel opened, viaduct removed, and waterfront renovated.

For over 20 years I lived in Lower Queen Anne (8 years on First Ave W) and on the west edge of Queen Anne (13 years on 13th Ave W) and would always take the Viaduct to go south of Downtown - I'd go south to Michigan St., then east to I-5 (or south on Airport Way S). Losing the LQA exit/entrance for 99 certainly will hurt people trying to by-pass Downtown from the Elliott/15th corridor. Trying taking Mercer to I-5, especially during peak "rush" periods, was pointless.

Personally, I'd like to see a cut-and-cover tunnel from 15th under Mercer connecting to 99, I-5, and SR-520 (eliminating the Mercer Mess and the 520 Shuffle). Cars traveling at speed pollute much less than when in stop and go traffic.

I do think that tolls on Downtown streets to deal with congestion due to drivers avoiding the tolls would be a matter of taking someone with few good choices and leaving them with none, especially if traveling via Elliott/15th.

I do think it is a longshot, as much as pols like O'Brien (or Moon?) might want it, in that it would still lead to gridlock, just further east (on Boren, for instance).

[MJ5150]

We get it Seattle. You hate cars.

-Mike

[Flightoficarus87]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

We get it Seattle. You hate cars.

-Mike

The city leaders do, at least.

Until mass transit options are finished being expanded/improved, people will continue to primarily drive here.

[Hacker1234]

Actually they love taxes.

[MJ5150]

Go ahead and add the tolls to drove around your city Seattle.
We'll spend our money elsewhere and stop visiting.

-Mike