New to Seattle, love the place, some bad (Asian) Indian apples (Bellevue: 2014, shop)

[goldengrain]

Originally Posted by seakid

goldengrains, what sort of crap are you stirring up?

The caste was alive and healthy? That's right it was and not to such stupid extents as you point out. Guess what? Caste system in America still "is"! It's not caste, but color, religion, etc. etc. The fact that you're making such generalizations about Indians makes it even more apparent that you're just lighting fire to the fact that Americans are dumb/rude/etc.

Please please refrain.

And as caliexplorer said, a black chic with a chinese guy in a black nieghborhood? That'll look different and will attract attention. Everybody looks @ unusual things.

People come to the US for money --- true, and is there anything wrong in it? Your forefathers probably came to the US for a similar reason.

Let's tackle puget sound issues and not immigration and human psyche of people you don't know

But there IS still a very caste consciousness amongst some Indians. Even now, there are issues concerning whether one's children should marry Americans.

People sometimes come here and say there is a culture clash, but that is often just an euphemism for racism on their part, not wishing to socialize with people not of their sort.

This IS something I know about. Don't get so defensive. It probably does not apply to you.

[TylerJAX]

I reserve the right to discriminate against whomever I want to in social situations. Everyone does it, there just isn't a magnifying glass on 99.99% of them. The OP can go cry a river.

[lexistone]

WOW cool so I am moving very soon like early to mid NOV, my job is in Bellevue How are the apartments is the area? are they really expensive what else can you tell me about the area?

[Spindle]

Other than Indian nationals being incredibly pushy, I had generally good experiences with them and considered them a placid lot. Then this incident regarding an Australian cricket player who happens to be black was taunted and called a "monkey" by the Indian crowd. After reading a bit and asking some indian friends about this, i was shocked at how bad they can be. One of my friends currently back in india is half white-half indian and she gets stares in her own country with the occassional quiet comment to essentially F off. After some reading, even Ghandi apparently was protesting in apartheid South Africa not that the blacks were being mistreated, but that the indians were being treated the same. What my indian friends have said is that in india, they don't consider it an issue as we do in western countries so it's not really brought to light or frowned upon. It's a cultural thing.
That said, obviously not all indian nationals are racist/prejudiced (it's a huge population so you'll get a mixed bag) and i highly doubt any indian who has lived in the US or any western country for a number of years still carries the same prejudices that their indian nationals might as they would get more exposure to different races and not think of it as a big deal. In addition, many countries seem to treat indians like crap - in the middle east while the same white/indian friend lived there, several indian expats were killed and the local police didn't do anything where as if it were a local or a white person, there'd be a large investigation.

I guess that's just the world we live in. Don't take it personally.

Symonds racially abused yet again - Cricket - Sport - smh.com.au here's the article about that cricketer.

[goldengrain]

Frankly, if I had kids and were of an old culture and came to the US, I would probably suffer some form of culture shock.
I would be troubled that my kids might get divorced soon after the marriage, or worse, not believe in divorce and be miserable all their lives.
It is often, after all, much easier to get on with someone of the same culture.

I remember myself, hokey little fundie kid from suburbia, through my first real job, being introduced to the noise and aggression of New York.
It was, looking back, one of the best things I'd ever done for myself, but for a while I found the people brash, loose, uncivilized and too ego driven.

I know, even these days, people who 'sent out' across the seas for a marriage partner for themselves or their kids. They seem to do just fine. Most really do try to get the agreement of their children.

We hear stories, though, of girls sent to the Mideast to marry and then come back with their husbands, file for divorce, and are murdered for humiliating the husband. There is a wealthy Sikh family in Canada whose daughter fell in love and married a poor man of their religion, went to the old country to live with him, and both were murdered. I am thinking that her family was going to pass the business on to whomever her husband was, and so it was imperative that they approve of the guy.

I suppose that money, vast amounts, brings its own set of problems that must factor in to the 'relationship' thing.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by seakid

goldengrains, what sort of crap are you stirring up?

The caste was alive and healthy? That's right it was and not to such stupid extents as you point out. Guess what? Caste system in America still "is"! It's not caste, but color, religion, etc. etc. The fact that you're making such generalizations about Indians makes it even more apparent that you're just lighting fire to the fact that Americans are dumb/rude/etc.

Please please refrain.

I'm guessing that you are in your teens or early twenties, without much of any experience of different cultures around the world - other than what you were taught in a PC classroom?

I've been involved with Indian religious ideas, particularly various types of yoga, many times when younger. And have had experience of Indians. And also have had experience of many peoples from around the world.

Considering ordinary average people, not spiritual seekers, I have to say that Europeans are the least prejudiced, followed by Canadians and white Americans. Yes, whites are generally the LEAST prejudiced!

Indians are definitely still affected by the caste system which was affirmed in SOME Vedic literature. It's linked somewhat to skin color, so that sudras and untouchables tend on average to be a bit darker than kshatriyas and Bramanas, though not always - due to breeding only within one's caste for the most part, and due to lighter skin sometimes having been seen as an indication of a highly advanced soul having incarnated (this was WAY back in the past).

Less speculatively, some of the conquerors of large portions of India were white or very light brown, such as Arayanas from Europe way back when, and Muslims from the Mid East.

Now all that color-consciousness doesn't apply to intelligent, well-educated Indians for the most part, and certainly doesn't apply to their sincere spiritual seekers particularly in the higher yogic traditions.

[seakid]

Originally Posted by Woof

I'm guessing that you are in your teens or early twenties, without much of any experience of different cultures around the world - other than what you were taught in a PC classroom?

I've been involved with Indian religious ideas, particularly various types of yoga, many times when younger. And have had experience of Indians. And also have had experience of many peoples from around the world.

Considering ordinary average people, not spiritual seekers, I have to say that Europeans are the least prejudiced, followed by Canadians and white Americans. Yes, whites are generally the LEAST prejudiced!

Indians are definitely still affected by the caste system which was affirmed in SOME Vedic literature. It's linked somewhat to skin color, so that sudras and untouchables tend on average to be a bit darker than kshatriyas and Bramanas, though not always - due to breeding only within one's caste for the most part, and due to lighter skin sometimes having been seen as an indication of a highly advanced soul having incarnated (this was WAY back in the past).

Less speculatively, some of the conquerors of large portions of India were white or very light brown, such as Arayanas from Europe way back when, and Muslims from the Mid East.

Now all that color-consciousness doesn't apply to intelligent, well-educated Indians for the most part, and certainly doesn't apply to their sincere spiritual seekers particularly in the higher yogic traditions.

And I think you're way past an age that comments from someone "not as experienced" will have any fruitful bearing; but I'll try.

Whites are least prejudiced? I'm not sure that's true, but I'd be glad if it is.

Here's the thing, with all the experience you have garnered, and all the people you've met, and from the sound of it, the places you've seen -- you still are doing what a person -- who has not gone to many places, not met many different people, not done many different things, etc etc -- would do -- making generalizations.

Also from your statements about conquering India, it seems you're probably not as knowlegable -- so I don't hold it against you.

When did Muslims become a race? Aryans is an ancient race, but Muslims are followers of Islam, and most of the Islamic invasion of India was done by Iranians (Indo-Aryans).

But anyway, can we get a closure on this thread? Can some admin close this pointless thread that has nothing to do with the Seattle area?

Thanks.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by Spindle

Other than Indian nationals being incredibly pushy, I had generally good experiences with them and considered them a placid lot.

I've found Indians to differ based on whether they were reared in India or elsewhere....or US/Canada. Sorry, but I have to agree with the pushy stereotype....and it couldn't be more timely.

I just called up a dry cleaner to see how much suits cost to dry clean. Singh said $ 7.95. I said "Can you get them for me on Saturday?" He said "Yes." When I got there and layed out several suits, he said that this would be a "rush" and there would be a small surcharge. I thought "fine, a-hole, do it this once and you'll never see my business again."

I've also seen them chisel in the motel industry, telling you a different price from what their franchise 800 number tells you...usually by about $5. I point out the difference and they get very defensive. I could just call up the 800 number again, reserve it, and then show up 10 minutes later, but DON'T want them to get my business.

I've seen this at least a handful of times. The ones who are born and educated here realize that this is obnoxious.

Therefore, that the ones who are from there act kind of weird doesn't surprise me. They really do seem to sequester themselves socially. And it's not just Seattle, it's pretty much everywhere I've lived.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by seakid

.....you still are doing what a person -- who has not gone to many places, not met many different people, not done many different things, etc etc -- would do -- making generalizations.

Also from your statements about conquering India, it seems you're probably not as knowlegable -- so I don't hold it against you.

When did Muslims become a race? Aryans is an ancient race, but Muslims are followers of Islam, and most of the Islamic invasion of India was done by Iranians (Indo-Aryans).
......

This is a general topic, we're not discussing something specific like the lobster the OP bought at PPMarket yesterday. That's why you and I are using generalizations.

The Persian invaders of India were basically Caucasians as today, so they grabbed the upper two castes for themselves, much as conquerors did everywhere in those days. In earlier waves of invasion they were run-of-the-mill animists, to judge by the parts of the Rig Veda that I've read. Later invaders were mainly Muslims. The original inhabitants were darker in skin color, especially farther south and farther from the Persian empires.

[Moll]

To VW2005 member and all other members. There is a voice within each and every human being that guides us down the road of life. That voice is our common sense, and it is what connects all of us in thought and spirit. There is beauty all around us. All we have to do is choose to see it, no matter where we are. I just wanted to share that thought. Peace. Moll.