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In my experience, it seems as though survivalism is subject to the "American way" just as everything else is.
If you don't have money, you can't get land upon which to homestead. (Amplify this with "if you don't have A LOT of money, you can't get a decent enough amount of land in a decent area for homesteading".) Back in the day, people used to be given free land for homesteading. These days - you have to BUY it.
Nobody knows how to make anything anymore. If you want anything, forget being adequately taught how to make it. You have to BUY it. And anything that is decent for survival is going to be outrageously expensive. Guns, ammunition, off-grid cooking utensils and appliances, etc.
So really - if you don't have a lot of disposable income, how exactly can you "prepare" adequately?
Another question - Is there anywhere in this country where small tracts of land, perhaps by the acre, are available for <$1,000 per acre? I'm not interested in huge tracts that'll cost >$10,000 because they're 50 acres at $200 per acre - I want to know about small parcels of 1 or 2 acres where they can be bought for less than the cost of an operable used car.
I really don't relish the thought of having to work my butt off at a soul-killing but high-paying job just so that I can prepare to live an agrarian life. Back in the day, people just lived agrarian lives and didn't have to be independently wealthy in order to do so.
Or is it better to look outside of America if we want to "bug out" without being "wealthy"?
Prepping and/or survival does not require "homesteading" or land ownership Some of the best prepared individuals have no land at all.
I would be curious to figure out exactly how said people intend to feed themselves into perpetuity after the excrement hits the rotating cooling device. With no property worth speaking of, there is no place to grow food nor raise animals.
Having little makes it easiest to be a prepper IMO. So many basic preps are free or very inexpensive.
Water, clothes, seeds, SKILLS, using things you already have, being resourceful.... none of those things come easy to rich people. The last thing a rich person thinks about is where there water comes from or doing things the self sustaining way.
In my experience, it seems as though survivalism is subject to the "American way" just as everything else is.
If you don't have money, you can't get land upon which to homestead. (Amplify this with "if you don't have A LOT of money, you can't get a decent enough amount of land in a decent area for homesteading".) Back in the day, people used to be given free land for homesteading. These days - you have to BUY it.
Nobody knows how to make anything anymore. If you want anything, forget being adequately taught how to make it. You have to BUY it. And anything that is decent for survival is going to be outrageously expensive. Guns, ammunition, off-grid cooking utensils and appliances, etc.
So really - if you don't have a lot of disposable income, how exactly can you "prepare" adequately?
Another question - Is there anywhere in this country where small tracts of land, perhaps by the acre, are available for <$1,000 per acre? I'm not interested in huge tracts that'll cost >$10,000 because they're 50 acres at $200 per acre - I want to know about small parcels of 1 or 2 acres where they can be bought for less than the cost of an operable used car.
I really don't relish the thought of having to work my butt off at a soul-killing but high-paying job just so that I can prepare to live an agrarian life. Back in the day, people just lived agrarian lives and didn't have to be independently wealthy in order to do so.
Or is it better to look outside of America if we want to "bug out" without being "wealthy"?
Decades will go by from now and America rich or poor will still be one of the few countries where it's not a crime to be independent and self sustaining. These ways are ingrained from our entire history. I've bought 34 acres for 9,000 cash from some last remaining heirs of a homestead in KY. 10 of the acres are flat and farmable, the rest is hillside forest. You won't see these listings on the east coast unless keep an eye out and advise several realtors to keep an eye. This comes at a big expense though - it'll be remote in a town of just a few thousand. Most people don't want to live remote.
I personally don't think guns and ammo will be very expensive unless there is an outright collapse all at once. Appliances? No one needs those though the bigger concern will be powering the few we already have at home.
I would be curious to figure out exactly how said people intend to feed themselves into perpetuity after the excrement hits the rotating cooling device. With no property worth speaking of, there is no place to grow food nor raise animals.
It's a SHTF scenario do you really think I'm worried about all the other people or just myself and my group?
I'm also confused why you think anyone will respect your property rights during a SHTF scenario. Your land will becomes the target for whomever has the power and force to take it from you. The more productive your land is at the onset, the more desirable it will be.
Also if the SHTF, what is the likelihood that government will be concerned about who is now squatting on their vacant land? So you come across a FHA foreclosed abandon farm in the middle of nowhere and what are you going to do, look at the No Trespassing sign stuck to the door and say "geez, US property, gotta move on", or are you saying, "oh boy, free land and a house"? If your playing the SHTF scenario fantasy card, don't stop at the stuff that fulfills your dreams, go for the true reality.
Having little makes it easiest to be a prepper IMO. So many basic preps are free or very inexpensive.
Water, clothes, seeds, SKILLS, using things you already have, being resourceful.... none of those things come easy to rich people. The last thing a rich person thinks about is where there water comes from or doing things the self sustaining way.
If you're talking about super-rich, like the snob-o-rama who flew past me at 15 mph over the speed limit in his brand-spanking-new Bentley yesterday so that he could be one spot ahead of me when the road narrowed from two lanes to one, okay, obviously that dude doesn't care. (One of his tail lights was not working. I laughed at him from the driver's seat of my far cheaper and more efficient Prius which had both tail lights working.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanu86
Decades will go by from now and America rich or poor will still be one of the few countries where it's not a crime to be independent and self sustaining. These ways are ingrained from our entire history. I've bought 34 acres for 9,000 cash from some last remaining heirs of a homestead in KY. 10 of the acres are flat and farmable, the rest is hillside forest.
Hillside forest = firewood. Nothing wrong with that. Is there really a country where it IS a crime to be independent and self-sustaining?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanu86
You won't see these listings on the east coast unless keep an eye out and advise several realtors to keep an eye. This comes at a big expense though - it'll be remote in a town of just a few thousand. Most people don't want to live remote.
I would LOVE to live remotely. Even where I am now (Ohio) it seems too built-up. Remote living sounds in-freaking-credible. By the way, "a town of just a few thousand" isn't remote. It doesn't start becoming remote until the population of the town is "just a few hundred" or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanu86
I personally don't think guns and ammo will be very expensive unless there is an outright collapse all at once. Appliances? No one needs those though the bigger concern will be powering the few we already have at home.
When I said "appliances" I meant old-school stuff. Man, even a freaking washboard costs $35! You can't even find a mortar and pestle at an antique shop. Old-style wood-fired cook stoves? To get one in good shape, it'll cost you 2-3x what a regular stove would cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita
It's a SHTF scenario do you really think I'm worried about all the other people or just myself and my group?
I'm also confused why you think anyone will respect your property rights during a SHTF scenario. Your land will becomes the target for whomever has the power and force to take it from you. The more productive your land is at the onset, the more desirable it will be.
They'll respect my property rights because failure to do so will result in the separating of their heads from the rest of their bodies at the hands of my various firearms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita
Also if the SHTF, what is the likelihood that government will be concerned about who is now squatting on their vacant land? So you come across a FHA foreclosed abandon farm in the middle of nowhere and what are you going to do, look at the No Trespassing sign stuck to the door and say "geez, US property, gotta move on", or are you saying, "oh boy, free land and a house"? If your playing the SHTF scenario fantasy card, don't stop at the stuff that fulfills your dreams, go for the true reality.
You can never underestimate the government. Not to mention, if you do that, you will probably have a rough time protecting unfamiliar property from invaders for long enough to farm the land.
They'll respect my property rights because failure to do so will result in the separating of their heads from the rest of their bodies at the hands of my various firearms.
Oooh, macho man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy
You can never underestimate the government. Not to mention, if you do that, you will probably have a rough time protecting unfamiliar property from invaders for long enough to farm the land.
But you got the ability to separating their heads from the rest of their bodies at the hands of your various firearms, so whats the point?
I would be more worried about the ability to preserve what I have and that often requires setting up shop where the masses and problems are not. The truth is, you have no idea where the safe zones or danger zones will be until after the scenarios starts to play out. You can pick some place all the preppers/survivalist/self-sufficiency folks claim is the "best location" for a bug out site and WHAM, it turns into disaster ground zero. Isn't it better to have the resources to survive wherever versus depening on a single place to survive?
It's quite easy to find cheap land if you don't care about climate or jobs. There are ways to do things inexpensively but it takes planning and a lot of self discipline.
Has prepping and self sufficiency taken on that ever-so American quality of being marketed so much that you can spend a whole lot of money? Definitely. Companies have jumped on the prepping bandwagon big time, using fear and misinformation to convince people that they need to buy a ton of crap for $$$.
But self sufficiency is the opposite. It's making do with what you have, taking care of your things so they last a long time, creating the things you need with your own hands, having a connection to your land to better prepare for changes.
Sure, you can buy a bunch of guns and ammo and mres and solar-whatever, but will that make you self sufficient? No.
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