How will the collapse go down? (insulation, Colorado, Florida, New Mexico)

[Woof]

Originally Posted by seasick

Piggybacking on the above post - what we will need where I live is a way to stay COOL and dry - heat is our problem here - humidity - you can burn wood or coal or compacted plant matter for heat and fuel - but for the crushing humidity and heat, it would be very bad, I think, to be in mid-south Texas when the SHTF.

Sleep under wet sheets, or hang wet sheets over the open windows.

I guess if you have a cold spring nearby you could haul drinking water in thermoses, or even make sun tea or put bottles of beer in the spring.

I assume you don't have a basement.

[VM1138]

Originally Posted by jamies

OK, when things go south, what's the timeline? How fast is the S going to HTF?

Let's say markets don't get their nightly delivery. By the next night shelves will be showing the signs. A second day without delivery - will people panic when shelves strart selling out of popular items. Will the media cause panic. By day three will a buying frenzy take place when people realize there is no more coming?

Or will premptive looting cause a cascade effect?

How long before people start rioting and attacking others for food?

Why would there be a food shortage? Will something come along and kill all the chickens, cows, pigs, crops and synthetic foods out there all at the same time? I imagine that some sort of catastrophe could interrupt the flow of certain foods, but not all of it all at the same time. And even if it did, there are always imports. I'm certainly never going to fight someone over the last box of Cheez-its.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by VM1138

Why would there be a food shortage?...I imagine that some sort of catastrophe could interrupt the flow of certain foods, but not all of it all at the same time.

All you need is a spike in the price of commodities, such as diesel fuel, to the point where it would be uneconomic for truck drivers to get on the road, and that could happen.

While such price spikes have never (in our lifetimes) happened to such an extreme, given the tenuous situation with derivatives and currency devaluations, we might begin to expect such extremes.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah

All you need is a spike in the price of commodities, such as diesel fuel, to the point where it would be uneconomic for truck drivers to get on the road, and that could happen.

While such price spikes have never (in our lifetimes) happened to such an extreme, given the tenuous situation with derivatives and currency devaluations, we might begin to expect such extremes.

Well, those diesel price spikes have happened in Alaska, and in Canada and Europe through heavy taxation. They all got by, and now fuel prices have dropped, probably for a good long time.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by Woof

They all got by, and now fuel prices have dropped, probably for a good long time.

They've already started rising again...

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Out of curiosity what do you think will bring about this downfall of civilization?

The Internet.

Originally Posted by itsMeFred

Why do people always think "societal collapse" is going to result in some sort of massive reversion of civilization?

Why won't we merely be absorbed, like the ancient Greeks or Egyptians? ...Where their own society did indeed collapse, but for the most part, life itself continued on more or less as it always had, evolving and changing as the times did?

Because of the Internet.

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

I'm not ready for, nor do I plan to prepare for, an end of the world scenario.

I prep for natural disasters (hurricanes, solar flares, pandemics, etc) and some sort of civil unrest to an extent, but not for a "complete collapse".

I hope I'm donating my stocked up food supply in 20 years to some soup kitchen. The last thing I want to do is use it. Better that I chuckle in 20 years saying, "There went that $500" than looking at my children wondering what to say when they are saying, "Daddy, I can't sleep I'm so hungry." It wouldn't take much to be in a position where store shelves are empty for a few weeks.



Do you know for a fact your neighbor doesn't have a year's worth of supplies and a whole bunch of seed and such? None of my neighbors know I have about six months of food.

This is what is interesting to me: preppers prepare for some "inevitable event" yet many don't seem to learn any actual practical survival skill outside of perhaps learning to properly aim a firearm or plant a few seeds. Sorry Pedro, but if you were truly 100% concerned that your kids won't be going to bed hungry then you would not be relying on that stockpile of canned food. And what if you had to relocate at a moments notice? How many cans to you think you could carry with you?

My point is that no matter how much you prepare there will always be one crucial error ignored.

Preppers are just a continuation of the American consumer psyche: I plan to survive through the aid of "products" and what is mine is not yours. This is the main difference between preppers and survivalists: a survivalists would not rely, and maybe not even keep, a stockpile of food. Instead he/she would learn how to stealthily hunt, trap, and forage for food with as few tools as possible.. ...which would include taking the neighbors cache. Not to sound cheesy, but it will be the Rambos that come out on top, not the preppers. Is your home made of solid brick? A quick, and perhaps only small, fire set to the outside of your dwelling would easily force you and yours out, to be picked off one by one as you and your family run out the door. What ever cans don't exploded from pressure build up relating to the heat and expanding gas (air inside can), well, now the attacker has access to all-ready cooked self contained meals.

Your own hands and wit will take you farther in time of need over a cache of canned food any day of the week. Keep in mind that the most dangerous human is the one with nothing left to lose. A starving unarmed person will be more dangerous than one who is well fed and armed. When someone is desperate they will stop at nothing even if they have a gun to their head (either a bullet will put them out of their misery or they will succeed in their attack. Either way it is a win-win for them).

[Woof]

Well, the S is hitting the fan right now in several parts of the Middle East ....... I guess we could watch and see how they cope ..... other than cramming into little boats and trying to bail out to Europe.

[jetgraphics]

Of course, without preprocessed and precooked food, available in the supermarket, mass starvation will result.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by Woof

Well, the S is hitting the fan right now in several parts of the Middle East ....... I guess we could watch and see how they cope ..... other than cramming into little boats and trying to bail out to Europe.

Well, think about this a bit; these people have been in the s*it for a while. They have exhausted everything they may have had or it may have been taken from them. Whatever they had may have been taken by armed gangs or armed government or whoever. Owning guns and 10,000 rounds of ammo would not have made any difference to any of these folks - hence, they are doing the only rational thing they can - leave.

Even back in Bosnia during the last war it was not the majority of the population that actually participated in the armed conflict - majority was desperate, destitute and just sitting on the sidelines, wondering what happened and when it will end. Many of these people were rural/agricultural and many were from the cities - it didn't really matter - there is nothing you can do really when a large group of armed people marches into your village with superior firepower, tanks etc. Sure, you can try to pull out and re-group, mount a guerrilla resistance and so on - this is what happens more or less but you are relegated to survival in the forest and mountains...

Look to Yugoslavia in the world war two - Yugoslavs (unlike many other countries) single-handedly mounted a successful resistance against a superior enemy (Germans/Italians/Bulgarians and domestic collaborators) - they fought a bloody guerrilla war for 4 years without much outside help and won (and a heavy human cost). They survived in the forests, mountains etc. - raiding German installations, relying on sympathizers in the villages and so on. Quite a few of them starved, froze to death, succumbed to disease etc. However, this was a war of liberation and hence they were eventually more motivated to win than the occupying soldiers who came from somewhere far away and had no "vested interest" in winning.

The main problem today is risk aversion - many people are conditioned to expect to survive more and more. We expect to live well into the 70s and 80s, we expect to be able to control more and more factors of our lives around us and control risk. This is why when someone dies at an age that is considered premature - it is a huge shock. Technology and scientific advances allow for all this. Surviving in the 1800s was a matter of a daily struggle - today most "preppers" and "survivalists" just sit in their A/Ced homes, go on Amazon, take out the credit card and order meals for the next two years.

Also bear in mind United States is huge in surface area - the imaginary or theoretical SHTF problems you may be facing in Wyoming or rural New Mexico will be VERY different than the problems someone is facing in South Florida....

[RcHydro]

THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING! Things will be a little tougher, but will continue on.