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Whether it's the same MSA or not, it is still 3 distinct cities. If you ask someone in Spartanburg or Anderson I doubt they would say they live in a suburb of Greenville.
So you only stick to the MSA definition provided that it fits your argument? Nice.
How many states aren't run like crap? There's very few that are fiscally responsible and have working plans to grow and prosper with or without an economic crisis.
Yeah, but several states still managed to prosper and create prosperous cities and metro areas, whether they were the best run or not. So in that regard, South Carolina--particularly state leadership--has no excuse. And what I'm mainly referring to is an entrenched culture in SC politics that seeks to keep people "in their place," more or less. That goes way beyond the typical political issues like fiscal responsibility and stuff like that.
Talk about NY all you want, but at the end of the day it still contains one of the world's premier cities. So I'm not sure if that was the best example to prove your point or not.
Yeah, but several states still managed to prosper and create prosperous cities and metro areas, whether they were the best run or not. So in that regard, South Carolina--particularly state leadership--has no excuse. And what I'm mainly referring to is an entrenched culture in SC politics that seeks to keep people "in their place," more or less. That goes way beyond the typical political issues like fiscal responsibility and stuff like that.
Talk about NY all you want, but at the end of the day it still contains one of the world's premier cities. So I'm not sure if that was the best example to prove your point or not.
Most states are run by the good ole boys network. If you don't like it, vote for someone else or run yourself and change how things are done. Easier said than done yes, but it can be done.
NYC really has NOTHING to do with the rest of the state. It could survive all on it's own without us. They'd probably prefer to.
What does having a premier city get us? Some of the highest taxes in the nation. We are also very much a good ole boys run state. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
Our Attorney General's father was our Governor for many, many years and ran many things into the ground. He only stopped running for re-election once it became obvious we had had enough and would not reelect him.
Same thing with good ole Pataki. He had promised us the moon. And delivered nothing. I won't even go into the Spitz fiasco which led to the current nimrod. We're not happy with him and most don't expect him to win an election. He hasn't won one yet either.
So up here we will at least try to get rid of the useless people running things into the ground.. Whether or not they deliver on any of their campaign promises is a completely different story.
Most states are run by the good ole boys network. If you don't like it, vote for someone else or run yourself and change how things are done. Easier said than done yes, but it can be done.
NYC really has NOTHING to do with the rest of the state. It could survive all on it's own without us. They'd probably prefer to.
What does having a premier city get us? Some of the highest taxes in the nation. We are also very much a good ole boys run state. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
Our Attorney General's father was our Governor for many, many years and ran many things into the ground. He only stopped running for re-election once it became obvious we had had enough and would not reelect him.
Same thing with good ole Pataki. He had promised us the moon. And delivered nothing. I won't even go into the Spitz fiasco which led to the current nimrod. We're not happy with him and most don't expect him to win an election. He hasn't won one yet either.
So up here we will at least try to get rid of the useless people running things into the ground.. Whether or not they deliver on any of their campaign promises is a completely different story.
I think you'd have to be a native South Carolinian or be very familiar with the state's history to understand how things operate in the state politically. Like I said, it's a cultural thing as far as politics go. That fierce independent streak that the state is known for often does more harm than good.
Upstate has the most growth and GDP in the state no matter how you slice it or try and tear it down. This without being the capital, a tourist destination, or government hub is impressive.
Very true.
Columbia should be ahead by light years on EVERYTHING! It is the state capital, has the flagship university, has a major military installation and the largest metro population. So how then does it fall behind Greenville in many areas, considering Greenville has none of those automatic step-ups?
Columbia has a much poorer performing airport in passenger numbers (4th in state).
Columbia has less upper end retail (Where is Whole Foods, Aldo, Pottery Barn, PF Changs, Chipotle, Fresh, Vespa, Lotus, etc, etc).
Columbia has far fewer corporate headquarters.
Columbia has far fewer international corporations.
Columbia has fewer high end hotels (Hyatt, Westin, Crowne Plaza)
Columbia has a less active downtown.
Columbia has a smaller county population for the central city in the metro.
Columbia has a smaller percentage of out-of-staters that have moved in.
Columbia has fewer tax dollars generated from tourism.
Columbia doesn't have the largest mall in the state, Greenville does. Dollars per square foot, Greenville also has the best performing mall in the state.
Columbia doesn't have the largest bank holding company in the state, Greenville does.
On and on.
IMO, if I were touting living in the biggest metro, I'd also want that metro to be the dominant metro in the state. Usually the largest metro is the dominant.....ie: Atlanta in GA, Charlotte in NC, Birmingham in AL, etc, etc. I have serious questions about what issues are keeping Columbia from being the clearly dominant metro, since it is the largest metro. Seems being the largest and being the dominant should go hand in hand.
Columbia should be ahead by light years on EVERYTHING! It is the state capital, has the flagship university, has a major military installation and the largest metro population. So how then does it fall behind Greenville in many areas, considering Greenville has none of those automatic step-ups?
Columbia has a much poorer performing airport in passenger numbers (4th in state).
Columbia has less upper end retail (Where is Whole Foods, Aldo, Pottery Barn, PF Changs, Chipotle, Fresh, Vespa, Lotus, etc, etc).
Columbia has far fewer corporate headquarters.
Columbia has far fewer international corporations.
Columbia has fewer high end hotels (Hyatt, Westin, Crowne Plaza)
Columbia has a less active downtown.
Columbia has a smaller county population for the central city in the metro.
Columbia has a smaller percentage of out-of-staters that have moved in.
Columbia has fewer tax dollars generated from tourism.
Columbia doesn't have the largest mall in the state, Greenville does. Dollars per square foot, Greenville also has the best performing mall in the state.
Columbia doesn't have the largest bank holding company in the state, Greenville does.
On and on.
IMO, if I were touting living in the biggest metro, I'd also want that metro to be the dominant metro in the state. Usually the largest metro is the dominant.....ie: Atlanta in GA, Charlotte in NC, Birmingham in AL, etc, etc. I have serious questions about what issues are keeping Columbia from being the clearly dominant metro, since it is the largest metro. Seems being the largest and being the dominant should go hand in hand.
I don't know a whole lot about Greenville, so I'm not going to sit on here and bash or try to compare it to Columbia, but I will dispute a few things you mentioned.
First, I'm an 'out of stater' who relocated to Columbia over both Charlotte & the upstate; we liked the size, central location to the coast and mountains and both my wife & I found good jobs relatively easy.
Columbia may have 'far fewer corporate headquarters' but you omit the fact that 99% of Americans are employed by companies w/500 or fewer employees - so I don't think that is all that relavant in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention that a lot of the educated workforce are employed into state & university jobs. The economies on the surface are totally different, so it's like you're comparing apples to oranges. Plus, Blue Cross of SC is based here, and w/it's various companies employs 6,000+ people in the metro area, and SCE&G is the only Fortune 500 company in the state and it is HQ here as well.
Columbia doesn't have Whole Foods, but it does have 2 other fresh/organic type markets - EarthFare & Fresh Market; while I wouldn't mind a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's move into the area, it's not like that niche isn't there at all.
And no offense, but I don't really consider Chipotle a high-end restaurant! There is a Ruth Chris Steak House downtown and some other local establishments that would be considered 'high-end establishments' like Diane's on Devine.
And to say that the area's largest metro should also be it's most dominant is not accurate. Ohio, where I came from, has it's largest metro - Cleveland, and it is losing population, while the capital Columbus is growing & even Cincinnati could give it a run for it's money. Bottom line though is Columbia & Greenville are roughly the same size, and that's ok, there are a lot of states where the capital is not the largest city/metro (NC, KY, MI, PA & NY to name a few). I think it's great that the upstate area is doing well b/c it helps our state in general. I think the Columbia area is doing fine though, we liked the fact that it was growing but not expanding at a rate that development/infrastructure couldn't keep up.
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