Serena's place in history..... (shoes, finals, olympics, record)
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I don't follow tennis very much, but didn't Navratilova, Graf, Evert kind of trail blaze more? Didn't they set a new tone for womens tennis?
What was the state of womens tennis when they came in?
-It seems like in a lot of sports now (MLB, NBA come to mind), athletes rely more on physical prowess, power. It makes comparisons to athletes 20-30 years ago tough, because they relied more on fundamentals and technique.
Johnny Mac, Navraltilova, Evert were schooled in technique. This Federer, Williams era seems to be based on, if I can just be more powerful, faster, I'll win.
I think she has to go down as one of the best. As a black woman, she has endured and overcome more adversity than all the other tennis greats combined. Overcoming this to attain her level of achievement is astounding, and has to be recognized. The same goes for her sister Venus.
I'd place them 1 and 2, interchangeably, as the best in history.
Are you high or something? Is this topic not about the Williams sisters....and Serena in general?
What's your point?
I think Johnny Mac is a tool....feel better now?
Christ...they should check IQ's at the door here.
Are you? The thread topic speaks SPECIFICALLY to Serena's place in history. The supporting OP asks SPECIFICALLY about SERENA compared to other past greats. Where does Venus come into play here, or Serena being a whiny b***h as you so eloquently describe?! Let me clarify then: when I meant how does Serena compare to Navratilova or Graf, I wasn't intending the meat of the discussion to be about personalities. I figured it was obvious enough that the discussion would focus on on-court abilities and hypothetical matchups.
Yes, fortunately for you IQ isn't checked at the door.
"I've seen them all, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Chris Evert was a machine, Monica Seles, Steffi Graf, but I believe we're watching the greatest female player that's ever played this game," McEnroe said.
"I've seen them all, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Chris Evert was a machine, Monica Seles, Steffi Graf, but I believe we're watching the greatest female player that's ever played this game," McEnroe said.
I don't follow tennis very much, but didn't Navratilova, Graf, Evert kind of trail blaze more? Didn't they set a new tone for womens tennis?
What was the state of womens tennis when they came in?
-It seems like in a lot of sports now (MLB, NBA come to mind), athletes rely more on physical prowess, power. It makes comparisons to athletes 20-30 years ago tough, because they relied more on fundamentals and technique.
Johnny Mac, Navraltilova, Evert were schooled in technique. This Federer, Williams era seems to be based on, if I can just be more powerful, faster, I'll win.
Federer, for what it's worth, is not a "power player." His technique and fundamentals are some of the soundest in the game.
"I've seen them all, Martina Navratilova, Billie Jean King, Chris Evert was a machine, Monica Seles, Steffi Graf, but I believe we're watching the greatest female player that's ever played this game," McEnroe said.
Well this is part of the ridiculous hype that Serena gets. I respect J Mc's opinion but I just couldn't disagree with him more strongly. If she doesn't have the most GS titles then she cannot be the best. She's played in a weak and watered down women's game so in truth it's likely that she's underperformed. Her overall game is relatively average but she's benefited from overpowering physically inferior women and playing in a craptastic era of women's tennis.
Well this is part of the ridiculous hype that Serena gets. I respect J Mc's opinion but I just couldn't disagree with him more strongly.
And I just couldn't disagree with your opinion any more strongly. McEnroe is clearly an expert and as he stated he's seen Navratilova, Graf, Seles, Evert & BJK play...up close and personal. So if he feels that Serena is or is on her way to being the GOAT, how is that ridiculous and how is that hype? What could it possibly benefit McEnroe to make such a statement?
Quote:
If she doesn't have the most GS titles then she cannot be the best.
A truly fallacious argument if ever there were one. So what you're also saying is that neither Navratilova nor Graf can be better than Margaret Court. Unfortunately, Court's playing days are a bit before my time, but I doubt that many historians of the game would make that claim. And while talking accomplishments, let us not forget Serena's 15 GS doubles & mixed doubles championships either.
Quote:
She's played in a weak and watered down women's game so in truth it's likely that she's underperformed. Her overall game is relatively average but she's benefited from overpowering physically inferior women and playing in a craptastic era of women's tennis.
You wanna talk about ridiculous hyperbole...This "argument" is rather silly in my opinion yet invariably comes up in sports discussions when someone feels the need to disparage a certain team or athlete. Nobody controls when they're born just as nobody controls their opponents. If we're to play that game though, as BajanYankee pointed out, the field wasn't exactly stellar when Steffi Graf was dominating, so what? Serena's career isn't over yet, but it's hard to argue that she isn't already in the top 5 of all time. Though you may not like it, by the time her career is over her name will most certainly be in the debate about the G.O.A.T.
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Serena is the best
