St. Louis needs to tear down its psychological walls (St. Charles: high crime, good schools)

[moorlander]

In St. Louis we love to fight with and compete against each other. A very well written piece here by Ray Hartmann about regionalism. Do we decided to work together or continue the status quo?

A City in Denial - St. Louis Magazine - April 2011 - St. Louis, Missouri

[DinsdalePirahna]

Kind of what I've been saying all along. You guys are way too Parochial for your own good.

The city dwellers turn up their noses to the suburban folk, until they need the numbers. Its amazing how city dwellers always say St. Louis is the "18th largest city" in the country - when in reality, the city itself doesn't even crack the top 50.

[moorlander]

Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna

Kind of what I've been saying all along. You guys are way too Parochial for your own good.

The city dwellers turn up their noses to the suburban folk, until they need the numbers. Its amazing how city dwellers always say St. Louis is the "18th largest city" in the country - when in reality, the city itself doesn't even crack the top 50.

You are right but you have it backwards. You wouldn't know that due to your short stint here but For nearly 60 years its been the suburban folk who have lambasted and turned their back on the city.

Either way it needs to stop. We have to start thinking and planning as one.

[RichMonk]

Originally Posted by moorlander

You are right but you have it backwards. You wouldn't know that due to your short stint here but For nearly 60 years its been the suburban folk who have lambasted and turned their back on the city.

Either way it needs to stop. We have to start thinking and planning as one.

While I might agree with you, making this about suburbanites will only digress into finger pointing match.

A city is not buildings and attractions. A city is made of people. Let those who "turned their backs on the city" do so. The people in the city have the sole responsibility to make it something that is strong, attractive and profitable. The people in the city, in turn, have to turn their backs on the suburbanites too. Don't expect any help but demand it when benefits are mutual.

You also have to make some decisions. Is the zoo being free a tourist attraction or a service to the city's inhabitants? If it is the latter, it might be time to start charging an out of city fee to visitors.

[BoomBoxing]

What DP said can be just as easily construed the other way around. Suburbanites distance themselves from urban decay, high crime, and failing schools. Then they turn around want to claim St. Louis's institutions and points of pride as their own despite the fact that nearly all of them are in the city. One look at most St. Louis area message boards definitely prove that the city dwellers are in the vast minority as if the population numbers weren't obvious enough...so DP's point is even more absurd to me.

Nevertheless, Hartmann is spot on. City and suburbs have a symbiotic relationship and need each other to survive and to thrive. While it is not a situation that I think is really all that unique to St. Louis on the emotional level, I think our fragmented government structure exacerbates the problem.

[DinsdalePirahna]

LA/OC is a very good example of what may be the future of St. Louis.

There is a similar break here. there is LA County and LA City. (Although LA city is a defacto part of LA County)
LA County is a mish-mash of smaller cities operating as corrupt little feifdoms, orbiting as parasites similar to the local burghs of StL County.

Only a few of these cities can operate independently from LA: Long Beach (which has more in common with OC), Burbank, Pasadena.

For the longest time, Orange County was derided as a mere suburb of LA. Similar to what is going on with St.Charles County.

Over a period of time, Orange County has developed its own identity, although locals here hate the term "the OC" almost everyone knows what you mean when you say "OC". In addition to Disney, we have a world glass symphony, a world renowned performing arts center, destination shopping, two adjacent cities that are each larger than St. Louis City, two professional sports teams, with a good possibility of an NBA team playing here next year and even in a down economy thriving businesses in the automotive, fashion, media and financial industries.

And as a warning to Saint Louis City. OC does not need LA to survive.

[flynavyj]

I thought it was about 60 years ago that St. Louis County was attempting to the join the city and was shutdown, and as of now, it's the other way around?

Either way the article does make a good point that there are differences between the city and the county and the residents of one seem to (in some fashion) hold it against the residents of the other. As i have friends who visit the typical questions are "you live in St. Louis, is it dangerous?" to which i respond "eh, i live in the burbs about 20 miles outside of st. louis. Not that dangerous" Or you can go with the "there's 92 municipalities in St. Louis County alone" But that doesn't really convey the whole point i guess.

To Dinsdale, I'd think it wouldn't be overly difficult for a county like St. Charles to operate independently of St. Louis and to do so successfully. The truth of St. Charles county is they've have a lot of things going for them, good schools, higher education options (community college and university), decent roads, mixed property (residential/commercial/agricultural), lots of employers, etc. If St. Louis city was no longer around, there would be some major setbacks for St. Charles, but financially, i'm sure it could survive, and if it was able to adapt it might even continue to grow.

As to "corrupt little fiefdoms" i'd wonder if you'd rather have a "large corrupt municipality" instead?

[moorlander]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

I thought it was about 60 years ago that St. Louis County was attempting to the join the city and was shutdown, and as of now, it's the other way around?

I believe there have been multiple attempts in the past but I don't believe StL County ever attempted to rejoin the city and was shot down. I'm certainly no expert though so please prove me wrong.

[DinsdalePirahna]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

As to "corrupt little fiefdoms" i'd wonder if you'd rather have a "large corrupt municipality" instead?

better to try to mange one than one-hundred. They are slowly being taken down out here: 2011 Pulitzer Prizes for the Los Angeles Times - latimes.com

Montebello is next.

I don't want to hijack a thread, but the LA times article shows the value of having good, local journalism

[inahandbasket]

Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna

Over a period of time, Orange County has developed its own identity, although locals here hate the term "the OC" almost everyone knows what you mean when you say "OC". In addition to Disney, we have a world glass symphony, a world renowned performing arts center, destination shopping, two adjacent cities that are each larger than St. Louis City, two professional sports teams, with a good possibility of an NBA team playing here next year and even in a down economy thriving businesses in the automotive, fashion, media and financial industries.

Um, DP, the Pacific Symphony Orchestra is a typical regional symphony orchestra which is a per service gig FAQ, a landing place for kids just out of the conservatory who haven't landed a full time position in an orchestra such as the St. Louis Symphony which is a destination career gig. St. Louis Symphony Orchestra (http://www.icsom.org/settlement/stlouis.html - broken link)

PSO is not a world class ensemble. Speak of what you actually know.