Is St Louis Open to Outsiders? (St. Louis, Miller: best town, assess, pollution)

[timmytimmycocopuff]

Originally Posted by SLCWarrior

Yep, and speaking as a transplant that worked for Emerson in lived in the CWE, this is all great, but when this "progressiveness" competes with a starkly rising crime rate, it doesn't bode well for enticing young professionals to relocate to STL:

Moderator cut: Link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

An aggressive war against crime NYC style in STL would do wonders for the city. But it would require tactics that would cause a media frenzy, and no one wants to be a media martyr.

I know a girl from SLU that was shot for her iphone in the CWE.

Why would anyone put themselves that close to danger? The crime in stl isn't organized. It's mainly a bunch of black kids trying to be hard because they're bored. --> truth.

It's like choosing to vacation in a country where there's a coup. It may be beautiful, but why take the risk of being one wrong turn away from tragedy? Just go to the country next door. The 'city' urbanness after a while just isn't worth it. In the minds of many young people, why not just live in another city? You don't need focus groups to determine this. You don't need countless marketing campaigns to talk about the inexpensive housing, cool neighborhoods, or how cool the botanical gardens is. People get it. People just don't want to deal with the black people they perceive as threatening who have completely different ethical codes than their own.

You basically have many middle class white people in the county with conservative traditional values. Black people in North city with a different set of values. Not many immigrants or other minorities with other values in between. And a leadership in a country that can't be blunt about race relations without being martyred.

A fresh look at St. Louis and Ferguson |

This explains the polarity of Stl and Baltimore and how through big data, sociologists can analyze cities prone to racial rioting. Other cities in the west don't have these major issues. It's because there's not as much polarity in the cultures.

St. Louis black culture doesn't mix with St. Louis white culture. It's a culture war. And no one talks about it.

(im speaking of majority in the msa. Not the progressive minority in neighborhoods like cwe.)

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by timmytimmycocopuff

An aggressive war against crime NYC style in STL would do wonders for the city. But it would require tactics that would cause a media frenzy, and no one wants to be a media martyr.

This seems like an interesting way to describe elimination of civil rights and increased extrajudicial killings.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

This seems like an interesting way to describe elimination of civil rights and increased extrajudicial killings.

So true. It will never work

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by timmytimmycocopuff

Why would anyone put themselves that close to danger? The crime in stl isn't organized. It's mainly a bunch of black kids trying to be hard because they're bored. --> truth.

No St. Louis has a gang problem that is very violent.

You basically have many middle class white people in the county with conservative traditional values. Black people in North city with a different set of values. Not many immigrants or other minorities with other values in between. And a leadership in a country that can't be blunt about race relations without being martyred.

Not all White people in St. Louis County have the same values. Not all Black people in the city have the same values. St. Louis have an exceptionally diverse Black American population that definitely cant be placed into a box. Most Black people in St. Louis don't live in north city.

For some reason, I've heard too many conservatives here lately expressing thoughts of moral superiority over Blacks and that in and of itself is immoral.

This explains the polarity of Stl and Baltimore and how through big data, sociologists can analyze cities prone to racial rioting. Other cities in the west don't have these major issues. It's because there's not as much polarity in the cultures.

Racial Rioting? The riots had everything to do with injustice not fighting people in the streets because of skin color. There have been numerous riots in Portland, Berkeley, Washington DC due to the same issue. Charlotte NC had rioting due to racism in the police department as well.

We have to be careful when naming something a race riot when it clearly wasn't.

St. Louis black culture doesn't mix with St. Louis white culture. It's a culture war. And no one talks about it.

I have White friends who don't think about mixing with Blacks. Their social network is diverse due to common interest. Same way with mine as a Black man. Many don't go out and look at skin color on everything. Once again race doesn't always define a persons culture. If you are a racist it does. Life is so much easier when we accept people for who they are and get to know them and enjoy the things we have in common.

[RisingAurvandil]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I guess we all have ideas of what makes a city attractive. Dallas or Atlanta type of cities are not on my wish lists like Seattle, Portland or Mineapolis. Atlanta isn't clean!

Your "wish list" cities are relatively whitewashed and haven't faced demographic and cultural struggles of StL's magnitude.

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

We invest in tons of new infrastructure, in St. Charles Co.

Really? St. Charles invests a lot in itself, but the state has spent relatively little over the past twenty years. I-70 , 40, and 370 haven't changed. The only real change lately has been Page Avenue, which was planned 40 years ago. And St. Charles paid for a large share of that anyhow.

St. Charles is the wealthiest and fastest growing county in Missouri. I doubt they are getting their fair share from the state.

Originally Posted by STLCityMike

In recent years, downtown alone which has not been known to be thriving:
We have built a new I-70 bridge across the Mississippi River
We have redone the arch grounds and removed Memorial Drive to add more park space and created a new entrance into the museum below the arch.
We have renovated the Central Library
We are renovating the Soldiers Memorial Military Museum
Moved SLU Law School downtown

Most of these are routine maintenance or silver bullets. Even the new I-70 bridge was scaled-back too much and is now underutilized.

Originally Posted by STLCityMike

The central corridor has a LOT going on - new housing around SLU, a new arena for SLU, a new SLU hospital is being built, we opened an inner city IKEA; New high rises are being build in the West End aside from a new Shriners Hospital and expansion at Barnes.


City Foundry is underway and Cortex continues to expand.

I agree that the Central Corridor is doing great, sans Downtown. These projects are great for the City. However, I still don't see much state, regional, or City investment.

Our leaders, and "we" by extension, are not aiming high enough.

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Huh? I've never had a problem with lights anywhere near St. Louis. Try driving on a highway in north Jersey, it's pitch-black for miles just ten minutes from Newark. You'd have to be an hour away from St. Louis for a comparable experience.

They're terrible here. Usually the dim orange lights. Outside of StL City, I rarely see lighting. Furthermore, its difficult to see the lanes.

I'm not a senior citizen, and I still have 20/20 vision. Our roads have slowly been getting worse over time.

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Most Black people in St. Louis don't live in north city.

Where do they live? Dutchtown? Darst-Webbe? Pruitt? Southhampton, hah!

North City has always held the majority of blacks in St. Louis. This hasn't changed.

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

For some reason, I've heard too many conservatives here lately expressing thoughts of moral superiority over Blacks and that in and of itself is immoral.

I'm not a conservative and I haven't seen this. You want to provide a quote?

[glamatomic]

Rising Aurvandil:

I think Mjtinmemphis is probably referring to the population of African Americans in the Metro- approximately 49% of the City is African American which is equivalent to about 155,000.

St. Louis County however, while only 23% of the population are African Americans, it equivalates to over 223,000.

Therefore more African Americans actually live in St. Louis County.

I do agree that most of North City is predominantly African American, however.

[timmytimmycocopuff]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Huh? I've never had a problem with lights anywhere near St. Louis. Try driving on a highway in north Jersey, it's pitch-black for miles just ten minutes from Newark. You'd have to be an hour away from St. Louis for a comparable experience.

Have you ever driven in other major cities of STLs size?

Only StL city has lights lining the highways. The county interstates have no lights, nor reflectors, except for ramp interchanges. That's not normal for major cities. (for the county is NIMBYism...light pollution might give those noble county folk sunburn and might cause a tummy ache)

Denver, for example, has lights stretching almost the whole metropolitan area.

Again, back to the assessment. St. Louis is a culture of being CHEAP. High quality is not part of the collective vernacular. It's cheap and slow. Utilitarian and Functional begets Convenient and Nice.

The bar is set a low in stl...even when it comes to lighting the highway.

[timmytimmycocopuff]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

This seems like an interesting way to describe elimination of civil rights and increased extrajudicial killings.

No it wouldn't. What does this have to do with civil rights?

[timmytimmycocopuff]

[quote=mjtinmemphis;49384082]No St. Louis has a gang problem that is very violent.


Current St. Louis gangs started as wannabe organized coast Crips and Bloods. From what I've read and learned (and heard first hand), they aren't much more than a bunch of bored young men trying to be hard in STL...and far from organized. It's probably in the interest to many though to pretend to be organized in an attempt of boosterism and cred.

I think most crimes in STL are late teens to early 20s young black males that are looking for ways to substantiate their lives and time.

I'm not convinced STL has that many organized gang violence, like that of LA or Houston...or real serious gangs like Mexican cartels.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by timmytimmycocopuff

No it wouldn't. What does this have to do with civil rights?

"Tactics that would cause a media frenzy" = what, paying careful attention to due process?