Commuting Tower Grove South/East to WashU? (Plus Public Transportation Follow-Up) (St. Louis: rentals, crime)

[steindle]

Would it be insane for me to commute each day between a home near Arsenal/S Grand and Washington U's law school? According to the Metro site (even after the recent cuts), it indicates that it would take about 30 minutes to get there/back by taking the #70 bus to the Grand Metrolink Station and then transferring onto a Westbound train to the school. I'm perfectly willing to commute up to 45 min in each direction -- as long as I don't have to worry about driving, I will probably enjoy having the time to read and collect myself before and after.

Most WashU students seem not to gravitate much farther into the city than Central West End...That area seems nice to me, but I am looking for a cheaper area and it seems like there is a lot going on for 20-somethings in the TGS/TGE/Benton Park/Shaw area...Plus my fiance will be moving with me and I want her to have a relatively dynamic, walkable area to live in while I'm studying endlessly!

Oh, and follow-up question: I'm well-versed in all manner of public transportation, so give it to me straight -- what are the buses like in St. Louis? Specifically the #70 (Grand), #30 (Soulard), and the #95 (Kingshighway)? The few times I was on the Metrolink, it appeared to be clean, diverse, and pleasant. Does it remain that way all day or does it transform at night?

Thanks!

[aragx6]

The Grand bus is one of the best ones to depend on -- It runs quite regularly. My experience with the buses is not the same as my experience with light rail, but from the couple of times I have ridden the bus in St. Louis I've gotten the impression that it's fine -- not great -- but fine. I have only ridden a St. Louis bus on the weekend so I'm afraid I don't know what commuting with it would be like per se, but I really think you'd be fine.

You can also bike easily to the Grand metro stop from the TG area when the weather is nice if that's something that interests you.

I'm curious if others have more experience on this than I do.

[steindle]

Originally Posted by aragx6

You can also bike easily to the Grand metro stop from the TG area when the weather is nice if that's something that interests you.

I'm not sure if I mentioned this in another thread, but I am actually an "avid biker." Even regardless of weather, to some extent...I biked into work today (easy commute, literally 3 miles entirely downhill) in pouring rain! So this is a very serious option for me -- I assume that the station has places to lock bikes?

Along those lines, I could even just bike the entire way to WashU regularly -- it's about 6 1/2 miles according to Google, and I usually bike at an average of about 18 MPH on flat land, so that would be a 20-30 min ride.

My concern: I've not heard...amazing things about the quality of the streets and the bike-friendliness of St. Louis. Are there bike lanes? If not, are the roads wide and/or are drivers generally aware of cyclists?

Pittsburgh is becoming increasingly bike-friendly, but even still you will often run into drivers who act like they have never seen a bike.

[aragx6]

I am certain there's a bike lane north of TG, but I think you lose it north of 44. I would worry about biking around Choteau right before you get to the Grand -- it's incredibly busy and I think a full 6 lanes -- there's an overpass right there too that I feel like is pretty thin. You might be able to head up Spring -- my guess is that it doesn't have a bike lane, but it's MUCH less busy a road.

You might just have to try a few options and see what would work.

I'm not sure about bike racks at the Grand metro, but it seems almost impossible that they wouldn't have one. Huh .. actually they have a list of stops with bike racks and Grand isn't one of them -- Bike-N-Ride Information (http://www.metrostlouis.org/GettingStarted/FAQs/bikenrideFAQs.asp - broken link) That seems particularly stupid given the number of people in the TG area for whom Grand is the closest stop.

[aragx6]

Edit: Lots of St. Louisans bike, but I think you're right that biking as a commute is a pretty new concept in the area. I'd say, from what I've seen in the last 5 years, it's getting better, but there's clearly a long way to go.

[TGS]

The Grand bus line is one of the busiest. However, the transfer station between the Grand Metrolink stop and the Grand bus line sucks. I don't mean it is unpleasant, but downright sucks. The bus stop is on top of long viaduct, with no shelter or benches. If you drive past the station on a hot summer day, you will get Katrina flashbacks from seeing a large number of unhappy, sweaty, mainly minority people waiting for pickup. I don't even want to think about how bad it is waiting there in the middle of the winter with the wind blowing. To get from the Metrolink stop to the bus stop, you have the choice of using a very long stairwell (which winds, so it is difficult to carry a bike up or down the stairs, FYI) or an elevator that reeks of urine.

I do use public transportation quite a few times a year, and I will do just about anything to avoid the Grand Metrolink stop. Honestly, you are probably much better off driving to WU from Tower Grove, since it is only a ten mintute drive. Maybe an acceptable compromise would be to bike from Tower Grove to the CWE Metrolink stop, which is just fine. The #95 Kingshighway bus runs from Arsenal/Kingshighway to the CWE Metrolink stop also. You could also take the #30 Soulard Line bus from Grand/Arsenal to the Shrewsbury Metrolink stop. I would recommend that you not leave your bike at any of the stations, but just take the bike with you on any bus/train and then chain it up at the law school.

You should also check out Dogtown or Maplewood, or south city within walking/biking distance of the Shrewsbury Metrolink stop. You should be able to bike quite easily (not distance, but in terms of bike-friendly routes) from Dogtown or Maplewood, or catch the #16 City Limits Bus to WU. Biking is certainly doable from Tower Grove (there are a lot of bike lanes in the immediate area) all the way to WU but not as easy.

Good luck! Hope this help!

[steindle]

Originally Posted by TGS

Honestly, you are probably much better off driving to WU from Tower Grove, since it is only a ten mintute drive.

The fiance and I only have one car between the two of us, unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it), and she'll likely be commuting into the 'burbs.

Plus I am one of these bleeding hearts who feels a moral imperative to support public transit and reduce emissions blah blah blah.

I would recommend that you not leave your bike at any of the stations, but just take the bike with you on any bus/train and then chain it up at the law school.

That's definitely a possibility...Is that common? In Pittsburgh, you are only supposed to take bikes onto the light rail during off-peak hours -- and even then, it's so uncommon that sometimes drivers will mistakenly tell you that they're not allowed .

You should also check out Dogtown or Maplewood, or south city within walking/biking distance of the Shrewsbury Metrolink stop. You should be able to bike quite easily (not distance, but in terms of bike-friendly routes) from Dogtown or Maplewood, or catch the #16 City Limits Bus to WU. Biking is certainly doable from Tower Grove (there are a lot of bike lanes in the immediate area) all the way to WU but not as easy.

Dogtown and Maplewood seem nice, but probably a bit far from "the action" for our tastes. Not to speak ill of either, but they both seem much more residential than commercial and don't seem to have too much entertainment value. Comparatively, Tower Grove seems to have a lot of restaurants, bars, young people, a bike shop, etc etc. Is this accurate?

In any case, thanks very much! The info re: Metrolink stations is very helpful.

[TGS]

You can take bikes onto the Metrolink anytime. They are allowed only in the first or second car of the train, though.

Dogtown is pretty residential, but it has plenty of small restaurants and shops in the neighborhood. There are a lot of grad students in the neighborhood. If you get a place near the intersection of Clayton/Tamm, there should be plenty to keep you interested.

Maplewood has a lot of fun stuff. My husband lived there a few years ago near Manchester and Sutton. I spent a lot of time there. There was so much to do within walking distance. There are a ton of restaurants, grocery stores, bars, little shops (even bike shops), etc. in the immediate area. There is even a little upstairs bowling alley on Sutton. My husband still thinks that the bar scene in Maplewood is tremendously better than Tower Grove South. Two or three years ago I would have agreed but the new places on Morganford are making the two neighborhoods about equal in my mind. Maplewood also is lower crime than Tower Grove South, and there isn't as much danger if you are walking home from the 3:00 a.m. bars located across the city line (Cusamano's is located right on the city/Maplewood line in downtown Maplewood). What Tower Grove South has over Maplewood is the selection of ethnic restaurants and the great architecture. In this instance, I would choose the convenience of Maplewood over Tower Grove South in a heartbeat if I had to deal with public transportation to get to WU. Heck, if you live on the eastern edge of Maplewood you can walk/bike to two Metrolink stations.

As a bonus, Maplewood has some of the least expensive rentals in the area (just avoid the buildings at Bellevue and Manchester). Also, if your fiance works in the county, then she won't have to pay the city income tax. Good luck!

[aragx6]

I like Maplewood and agree with TGS that you'd be surprised at all there is to do there -- Dogtown is safe, has cute little houses and is close to everything, but the neighborhood itself is just about as sleepy as they come.

[STL Aviator]

I've been using the Grand metro station for the past 2 weeks and I agree that it's a crappy station, but if it's convenient for you then there is no reason why you couldn't use it. I use it because it is practical for me as my wife can drop me off there on her way to work. I've seen a few intrepid bikers using Grand Ave. during the week though I don't think I would be brave enough to try that. There is a plan to replace the current overpass with a new one that would eliminate one lane of traffic in each direction and replace it with a bike lane and wider sidewalk. Clearly that's a long-term project though that will probably not happen soon enough to be of use to you.