Loved your city! (St. Louis, St. Charles, Wentzville: best neighborhoods, real estate, apartments)

[BHboston]

I visited St. Louis for the first time a couple months ago and I believe that it is a real hidden gem of the Midwest.

Coming from the Boston area I feel like St. Louis is hardly ever mentioned/talked about - in fact the only time I had seen in mentioned was in a negative way (top 10 list of cities that had lost the most population, highest crime rates, etc). I hadn't done a lot of research but I expected maybe a pocket of vibrancy near downtown and the rest to be forgotten-looking and dangerous (I have spent a fair amount of time in/around Cleveland and was expecting similar/worse).

I was blown away by the vibrancy of so many St. Louis neighborhoods (Soulard, the Central West End, The Hill, Lafayette Sq., South Grand, etc.) and even some of the decayed areas seemed charming due to the architecture. Many areas seemed much more similar to Boston than other Midwest cities. People seemed relatively open and friendly there were a lot of good places to eat.

My two questions to St. Louis residents: Do you have the sense that the revitalization of city neighborhoods is picking up steam as time goes on? And I read somewhere that Mayor Slay is making crime reduction his number 1 priority - do people feel as though this is working/will encourage more people to move in to the city?

[glamatomic]

Hi BH!
I'm so thrilled that you loved and appreciated St. Louis You're right, even the decayed areas have an eerie beauty about them.

As for revitalization, I've unfortunately been living away from St. Louis for the past 4 years (military husband) but am thankfully moving back this year. I've always seen the revitalization potential in St. Louis, and during my time living there noticed that it seemed to happen in small pods / sections. I'm of the opinion that revitalization will happen because of good, diligent citizens doing their best to improve their houses and their neighborhoods- I never had a lot of faith in the city council being able to achieve as much as a strong community could achieve.

As far as crime goes, despite being on the "top" lists, it's always been a non-issue for St. Louisans because the statistics are warped (St. Louis, unlike other cities, has a small statistical area because of it's century+ old city boundaries. Subsequently, the much safer, suburban metro area isn't included. If every city only included it's central/downtown and immediate areas, their crime statistics would probably be comparable to the STL!). That said though, no city enjoys a bad reputation for crime, whether it's founded or not. The council has been saying since 06 when we first topped the list at #1 that they would be cracking down on crime... I'll let you know when I move back to my beloved adopted hometown if I think it's working

As far as people moving back to the city though, St. Louis unfortunately is still losing population as far as I know, although downtown's population has increased thanks to all of the loft apartments and efforts toward gentrification.

St. Louis though has a lot to love, and the benefits of living in the STL region outweigh the cons. As a Bostonian, I'm sure you could appreciate the fact that St. Louis is a *lot* more affordable than Boston, yet still has all of the amenities, architecture and culture of a larger more prominent city. I'm sure St. Louis would welcome you if you ever wanted to move

Thanks for your post and have a marvelous weekend!

[Dawn10am]

St. Louis attracting migrants, but departures still outpace arrivals

Basically the story says that a lot of people are moving back into the City, but it's just not enough to offset the number moving out. So while the City is losing population, it's not completely stagnant. Plus the percentage loss in the 2010 census was significantly smaller than in past decades, so the outward trickle is certainly slowing. A ton of neighborhoods are revitalizing. I'm not sure if you got to see The Grove (also called "Forest Park Southeast), but it's pretty incredible what's happened there. I think they've had like 15-20 new businesses open up there over the past 3 years alone.

I'm not sure as far as crime goes. I just mind my own business and don't go into neighborhoods where I shouldn't be going into, and I've never had a problem. But like glamatomic said, the city limits of St. Louis are a mere 60 square miles. Take the central 60 square miles of pretty much any city and the crime statistics would be the same. I'm from Memphis originally and, even though the crime rate is statistically lower, I can guarantee you it's a more dangerous city.

I'm glad you liked our city! I really do think it's the finest city in the Midwest outside of Chicago.

[glamatomic]

I've probably seen crazier stuff in the past 4 years stuck in Podunk-Military-Town, North Carolina than I *ever* did in St. Louis (and I spent most nights working downtown, and my spare time venturing all over St. Louis exploring).

In my current horrid cackalackee-awful-place-overpriced-hole-town (words can't even describe my disdain for this place- is that obvious yet?), I've lived in 3 neighborhoods over the years, although not *the* best neighborhoods, definitely the better parts (I'm currently on the fringe of supposedly 'the best' neighborhood), and I've seen more insanity ensue here than I ever encountered in my years in St. Louis. We may not have the gun/ gang violence, but we definitely have the craziness (and not in a good way!).

St. Louis gets an unfortunate bad rapp thanks to the warped statistics.

Everyone looking to move to a culture filled, historical, affordable city should give The Lou' a chance

[stlcitygirl]

I live in an up and coming neighborhood and can attest to the fact the city is definitely revitalizing. The only issue is how to keep people from leaving the city to the burbs. Its actually been amazing to watch all the old buildings/houses be brought back to life.

[aragx6]

I definitely agree with others that the city on the up and up. St. Louis, like most other American cities, has seen its crime rate drop significantly over the last 25 years. Some of the neighborhoods you spent time in have essentially always been nice -- such as the Hill and for the most part the Central West End, as well as far south, west and southwestern neighborhoods that have always been solidly middle class and filled with cops and firefighters with residency requirements, but still many others have gentrified significantly, often in only the last 10 years or so.

The South Grand area is a perfect example of that gentrification -- made easier by the gorgeous, largely intact housing stock (one of the key benefits of it all being built of brick!). Soulard was once rather sketch as well, though much of its reinvestment occured earlier in the late '80s and early '90s.

And other neighborhoods have seen continued reinvestment and have made progress but are still very much on the up and up. Neighborhoods like Forest Park Southeast, Benton Park and Dutchtown. Dutchtown and the Bevo area, with their Bosnian population, are a great testament to what an increasing immigrant population influx can add in vibrancy and flavor to a city. And while somewhat still in its beginning stages the same can be said for Benton Park West and its Hispanic influx. St. Louis has traditionally been a very black and white city, and I think it being less so can only be for the better.

It should also be noted that, as some have said, and despite many St. Louisans best hopes, the city did not in the last census turn around its population losing streak. Some specific neighborhoods -- Tower Grove South is again a perfect example of this -- that one might have expected, due to clear gentrification, to have gained actually lost population instead. Which seems counterintuitive until one realizes that many of the neighborhood's homes had been broken into multi-family flats or had poorer families living in them. As many single young professionals and DINKs (dual-income, no kids) moved in, they were living in homes that as recently as the last census had housed anywhere from 4-10+ people in them.

But the main source of population loss for St. Louis city came from some of its worst, most dilapidated neighborhoods. In this decade, and to a great extent the last as well, the main exodus from the city was not white flight, but a new wave of black flight. Essentially, most anyone with the means to leave these neighborhoods, are. Some of them have only barely left the city limits for neighboring suburbs, but its clear that others have headed out farther to areas such as Wentzville in St. Charles County which, while still vastly white, has grown to about 6% black. The same things that brought the white folks out there -- good schools, low taxes and cheap homes predominantly -- have brought black St. Louisans that way as well.

So yes, St. Louis is a town with its fair share of problems, and there are Northside neighborhoods that frankly could be generations away from marked improvement, but the city as a whole feels like a place that has a lot going for it.

I haven't lived in St. Louis enough as an adult to have a clear grasp on Slay, though he has always struck me as a true politician -- smile a lot and promise the people what they want while still doing things your way and, particularly from a development standpoint anyway, showing a lack of concern for transparency and a continued attempt to make residents optimistic about the city while still keeping them away from decision making that goes into that. It should also be noted that St. Louis is a weak-mayor town that is, for all intents and purposes, run by the 28 alderman (there's been some new talk of cutting the number of wards to 12. We'll see ...: St. Louis aldermen to consider shrinking their board)

[WayneDixon21]

So, i heard about Boston's beauty,, I once visited my friend in Boston and I had like the place.

[glamatomic]

Boston too is an amazing, historical city and has a lot of gorgeous parts.

But you can't beat the cheap cost of living in St. Louis coupled with it's history, culture and architecture!

[BHboston]

Thanks for your replies and the information, you brought up some interesting points.

I have heard before how gentrification can actually cause population density to fall. I know, for example, that Boston's real estate has hardly ever been more expensive/desired than it has been in the past decade, yet the 1950 population was well over 800 thousand while today's is just over 617 thousand. It definitely makes sense that between "black flight" from North City and gentrification, population could still be falling even though a lot of revitalization has occured.

Also interesting to hear about the relative balance of power in terms of the mayor vs. city council. Although sometimes I think it's frightening how little a city's leadership can really do to improve conditions on a large scale when economic, social/cultural, historical, etc. forces are working in the other direction.

In any case, I hope that I can find an excuse to visit St. Louis again sometime. I agree with stlcitygirl that its amazing to watch old things come back to life and that was one of the reasons St. Louis left such a big impression on me.