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I believe they are going to the suburbs of Pittsburgh (like Penn Hills) while enjoying the city. Pittsburgh is designed well transportation-wise. The metro of Pittsburgh is growing while that of Syracuse is staying the same.
The Pittsburgh metro area (this includes suburbs - not just the city itself) has lost 400,000 people since 1930 and shrunk 3.1% just in the past ten years alone. I happen to like Pittsburgh - cool city with an interesting mix of old and new architecture and the confluence of the rivers... but the city of Syracuse shrunk only a bit in the past ten years and the Syracuse metro area actually remained stable in size rather than declining.
I am a 24 y/o RN who is moving to Syracuse and sometimes I feel as though the area has no identity, no real history.
Cities in the northeast which are comparable in size and population, such as Pittsburgh PA, Providence RI, New Haven CT, all have rich histories and identities that the people who reside there feel great pride in. Pittsburgh has its industrial history and its forested mountains. It has a dynamic economy and a strong healthcare and university system. Providence has its historical buildings and New England beauty, and an Ivy League university. New Haven has its strong political connections and its closeness to NYC. It also has Yale. Syracuse has... what? It's an island in the barren fields of upstate NY with a decent private university. Movies are filmed and set in these other medium sized cities, because of their rich identities that people nationwide are familiar with. When was the last time a film was set in the plain, grassy fields surrounding Syracuse?
Syracuse's history amounts to a whole lot of people moving into the area in the mid 20th century and then leaving a scant few decades later. Downtown Syracuse is a ghost town and it shows. Everything about Syracuse simply screams "unremarkable."
What do you think? Use this thread to discuss your thoughts and feelings about the weakness of the identity of Syracuse. Or, if you disagree, use this thread to talk about the strengths of the identity of Syracuse.
Talk of "plain, grassy fields" and "barren fields" betrays a certain ignorance about Central New York. Sounds like something that someone observed from a terminal at Hancock. The same goes for the comment about a lot of people moving to Syracuse in the middle of the twentieth century and moving away decades later - there's a narrative about urban decline in there somewhere, but you haven't hit on too many of the details accurately and you blissfully ignore that such a trend affected every old American city not named New York after the Second World War.
That said, while cities such as Pittsburgh or Montreal and regions such as the Upper Peninsula of Michigan have a strong civic pride in some of their peculiarities - love of extreme weather, pride in a blue-collar work ethic, embrace of ethnic minorities - Central New Yorkers are notable for being unusually negative and defensive. A very vocal group - a minority, perhaps, but a loud one - is rather conservative, undereducated, bitter about economic changes of the past half-century, and generally envious about progress (real or simply perceived - like an Upstate sister city debuting a Cheesecake Factory before Syracuse does) elsewhere.
Syracuse, however, is an enjoyable and rewarding place to live for those of us whose lives aren't affected by the oddballs out there; there's a strong progressive undercurrent around here. It just happens to get less media coverage than noise from the thousands of angry people who would rather be living in North Carolina or suburban Virginia but haven't got the ambition or means to move more than five miles from where they were born.
I've noticed that about the locals to, the five mile rule. At best they may fly to Disney World and say, "I've done Florida".
This is a HUGE country we live in and I've at least visited most of it. I run to Vermont for pizza. Most people I know have never even been to Albany or Rochester.
Another Forum I am a member of is very social. We have gatherings all over the country.When I travel I stop and meet friends all over the place, most recently in Madison Wi and Spokan. But the local members never get together. I've made it a point to meet each but as far as a gathering it never has happened in 10 years. Alot is Winter travel is tough and the few nice weekends are reserved for family. Toll roads may also be a factor. CNYers seem to have a fear of interstate travel while other people think nothing of jumping on the interstate and driving 100 miles to buy 10 bucks worth of wood. And meet a new friend.
I've noticed that about the locals to, the five mile rule. At best they may fly to Disney World and say, "I've done Florida".
You mean *your* locals?
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CNYers seem to have a fear of interstate travel while other people think nothing of jumping on the interstate and driving 100 miles to buy 10 bucks worth of wood. And meet a new friend.
Or- people are weighing that gas is expensive and don't want to load up their families for a 4-hour (roundtrip) drive to meet a stranger, who may or may not be a total whack. That's a waste of $60, for that tank of gas. I'd rather go to Cooperstown, Saratoga, Old Forge, visit family in the Scranton area, Taughannock Falls/Ithaca/the wineries, Southwick Beach, etc. There are plenty of strangers-who-could-become-friends around here ... who DON'T cost $60 to meet.
As another factor, it feels more threatening... to meet someone near your home. It's more real. There's no graceful way out if you DON'T like them enough to be friends because there's no excuse of distance. I'm on a few different forums - one of them from almost ten years ago now - and ALWAYS, people would rather meet up when they're already traveling. It's economical and less risky. Common sense, iow. For one of them, we all try to get together for a week, every other year... last year was Chicago. Next year will be Vegas. Some people visit each other, outside of the formal get-togethers, but that's entirely a private thing. They just don't want the whole flippin' board coming over for dinner. :P
Truly though- maybe if you stopped burning gas so flippantly, you might be able to move out of your self-proclaimed He!!-Hole.
Talk of "plain, grassy fields" and "barren fields" betrays a certain ignorance about Central New York. Sounds like something that someone observed from a terminal at Hancock. The same goes for the comment about a lot of people moving to Syracuse in the middle of the twentieth century and moving away decades later - there's a narrative about urban decline in there somewhere, but you haven't hit on too many of the details accurately and you blissfully ignore that such a trend affected every old American city not named New York after the Second World War.
Yes - if you drive Rte 81 north from Syracuse up towards Watertown that's mostly what you see. Go in any other direction and you'll encounter lush, green, hilly beauty that's remarkable. I've lost count of how many visitors I've spoken with who comment on the remarkable natural beauty of our area - they're uniformly amazed and pleased
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Central New Yorkers are notable for being unusually negative and defensive. A very vocal group - a minority, perhaps, but a loud one - is rather conservative, undereducated, bitter about economic changes of the past half-century, and generally envious about progress (real or simply perceived - like an Upstate sister city debuting a Cheesecake Factory before Syracuse does) elsewhere.
If they didn't allow anonymous posting on Syracuse.com I suppose we wouldn't be so aware of them Do you think that if we get a P.F. Chang's, A Cheesecake Factory and a Dave & Buster's that they'll shut up? I doubt it!
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Originally Posted by Sean
CNYers seem to have a fear of interstate travel while other people think nothing of jumping on the interstate and driving 100 miles to buy 10 bucks worth of wood. And meet a new friend.
I think the broad brush is more than a bit unfair. I read and hear generalizations like this regularly and from a number of people (not just here.) I've traveled to nearly all of the states and over one dozen foreign countries - most of it in the past ten years (I did plenty of travel in the US prior to that but once I finally had the time and money to travel further I began doing so.) For me... there are very few strangers - mostly just friends I haven't met yet. My point is not that I'm unique in this regard - I'm not. Some folks are unable to travel due to financial constraints or family responsibilities and others are less adventurous - but IMO the people who just never go anywhere are not the majority.
If they didn't allow anonymous posting on Syracuse.com I suppose we wouldn't be so aware of them Do you think that if we get a P.F. Chang's, A Cheesecake Factory and a Dave & Buster's that they'll shut up? I doubt it!
I agree with phaelon, I think a lot has to do with perception based upon the views of the nutjobs on syracuse.com. I dont think we should count those bitter retirees from North Syracuse and Cicero lol
For me... there are very few strangers - mostly just friends I haven't met yet.
That is a great way to put it. I'll be borrowing that one. I love meeting new people. Almost everytime I post about an area I try to add a "good people" "very friendly" "made me feel welcome" type comment.
However I still feel many (I'll give you not most) in this area think like the above poster who feels the World is full of crazies trying to kill her. If I thought that way I guess prolly I would tend to stay in my comfort zone near high school friends and family.
the above poster who feels the World is full of crazies trying to kill her. If I thought that way I guess prolly I would tend to stay in my comfort zone near high school friends and family.
Where did I say that? There you go, grossly exaggerating again.
I have a family to protect and, being one-half of my children's parents, have a duty to protect myself for their sake. I love meeting new people and am actually good friends with quite a few people I met through foruming, including a very good friend here on city-data. But I always meet them without my family first, in a place where I feel comfortable. To do otherwise would be wildly imprudent, to say the least.
I spent 17 hours on an Amtrak train last summer, one way, to go to Chicago to meet dozens of forumers I didn't know. I went alone, navigated my way from Amtrak through the streets of Chicago to ask around for the blue line subway, finally got to the airport and arranged for a shuttle to pick me up and bring me to the hotel where everyone was going to meet... where I roomed with a stranger who became a friend. And I'll do the same thing next year, but in Las Vegas... and on a plane. I have NO interest in riding across the country on Amtrak! lol
Generalisations don't seem to work out very well for you, do they?
I agree with phaelon, I think a lot has to do with perception based upon the views of the nutjobs on syracuse.com. I dont think we should count those bitter retirees from North Syracuse and Cicero lol
Some of the perception stems from what we read from that group, sure (and the people who run that site should be ashamed - far from promoting civic pride, they actively encourage behavior that casts our community in a bad light; it's not a Newhouse problem, either: the websites of the major newspapers in Portland, Cleveland, and Newark are all run by the same company as the P-S, but the Syracuse site has a combination of vitriol, ad hominem attacks, and poor grammar that is unmatched by the other cities' sites.)
Beyond syracuse.com, though, I meet so many odd people who claim to hate Syracuse so strongly. There's the new colleague of mine, for instance, who told a group of us that he "hates Syracuse" in those very words and is only living here because of his girlfriend. Not surprisingly, he lives in Clay, claims never to have spent any time downtown (other than walking from his garage to our office), and has not spent a moment on the Hill, either (apart from his trek from the parking garage into his academic building each day). He's quick to admit that he's spent zero time in Syracuse, but hates the place.
I meet a ton of people like this. No knowledge of the great museum down the block, no clue about the local restaurant scene (one of my favorites is the acquaintance from Kentucky who bitterly complains about living up here and once remarked that it came as no surprise that "all the sushi in Syracuse is ****"...as if the sushi in any city in Kentucky could be even marginally better), and generally no eagerness to get out and discover new things.
It's a weird phenomenon. A lot of people seem to move here, get the impression that there's nothing going on and that it's not cool to enjoy it here, and give up.
Funny thing is, everyone I know who has moved to Syracuse and sought out an active life and investigated local culture has ended up loving - not just liking - living here. They're always just a bit curious why they have to justify or apologize for their decision to move here; skeptical locals are always incredulous that an outsider would relocate to Central New York (especially the city of Syracuse). Weird.
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