Are people in the Tampa Bay area too cheap to support a major league baseball team? (Dunedin: sales, condo)

[Pragmaticus]

Originally Posted by The Northerner

Too many transplants still attached to the teams based wherever they came from. That's why Rays fans are usually outnumbered by the oppositions when temas like Detroit, Boston, NY, Chicago, etc. come to town. Florida is an awful place for pro sports franchises because of this. The state is packed with people from other places and the local teams have little or no history to woo them with.

Also, the Trop is an atrocious baseball venue that is tough to get to for much of the Tampa Bay populace. This plays into things as well, but with the success the Rays have had on the field in recent years you just have to wonder whether or not MLB is viable and/or sustainable in that area. Some argue that a new stadium in a better location would help, but that would be a big gamble for the taxpayers, who would likely get tagged with the majority of the bill.

If I were the owner, I would seriously have to be considering moving this franchise by now. North Carolina would be my first choice, because the region is still growing despite the recession and Atlanta has had a monopoly on the southeastern (sans FL) US MLB market for almost 50 years.

Not really. Orlando Magic and Miami Heat sell full house. You just need a winning team te get folks to pay for it.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by gonzoUSF

First and foremost, I don't think it's merely a fact that we are to cheap, in fact Rays ticket prices are some of the lowest throughout baseball. So it is more than just ticket prices. Sorry this is going to be long, but I feel these points must be said.

Personally, I believe the problem with the Rays and MLB at it's current location is the following:

Location: It's an overused phrase, but location location location. This is a major problem for the Trop. For one St Petersburg is at the most southern part of a peninsula. So you have water on three sides, limiting people to come from either Pinellas or Hillsborough, most likely people are not going to come from southern Hillsborough on any regular basis because of the Skyway Bridge and incurring toll which is a deterrent to most. Take a look at this radial map of a 30 mile radius from the Trop, note how much of the circle is being taken up by water. (Radius Around a Point on a Map). Than compare it to the radial map of locations in Downtown Tampa (Red) and Fair Grounds (Blue) (Radius Around a Point on a Map). It's a huge difference when it comes to populous who can be reached. When I talk location, I am strictly referring to geographical location not so much location to current infrastructure or other amenities, etc. Which leads me into my next subject, demographics.

Demographics: Another major issue with the location of the Trop is it's location in St. Pete along with Pinellas and their respective demographics. For one, Pinellas County's population has been stagnant for the past 20 years, slowly increasing and decreasing by ~2% every year and in the last census Pinellas actually lost population. Cities or regions losing population is very bad, but I won't get into that. Same thing is happening in St. Pete, it is losing population and long term is otherwise stagnant like it's county, Pinellas. This will likely remain this way, in large part because both the city and county have reached their limits and reach on growth, meaning sprawl has already reached both county and city boundaries. The only thing to go from there is up with density, but they is not happening either.
Meanwhile, in Tampa where the majority of the regions population resides along with Hillsborough County, who both continue to grow at rather fast rates. Tampa alone has 100,000 more people than the City of St. Pete and from the 2010 census to 2011 estimates has added 10,000 more people giving it a nice growth rate of 3.1%. And in Hillsborough it has nearly 300,000 more people than Pinellas has and also has a health growth rate. Those are huge differences, coupled with the fact that some of the fastest growing parts of Tampa and Hillsborough are NE of Tampa, areas like New Tampa, Zephyrhills, Temple Terrace and then there is Brandon SE of Tampa. All of those areas are a significant drive to the Trop easily over an hour with rush hour, and is also a huge deterrent when deciding to go to a game.

I am getting sick of typing, but I will add more to it later. In a very roundabout way of getting to my point, the Rays in order to survive in the region need to come to Tampa.

I agree with this ^^^, location, location, location. My husband and I discussed this recently. This location is terrible, hard to get to for a large majority of the population. If it were in Hillsborough, you can easily draw from all directions due to the interstates and not having to cross major bodies of water. Mayor Buckhorn would LOVE to have a new stadium built. I used to think that was not a good idea due to the large cost, but I have changed my mind. Not only would it be good for the Rays and their fans, but it would overall be good for the growth of the city of Tampa - a win-win, IMO. I know St. Pete wants to keep it because of the tax base and lease and all, but sometimes you gotta cut your losses. They could convert the Trop to some other creative use better suited to that location. Rays need to come to Tampa.

[Tyryztoll]

Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT

Atlanta is an awful sports town, the braves are always in the lower half of attendance

Yes, Atlanta is an awful sports town, but no way were the Braves in the lower half of attendance figures for most of the 90's and a good bit of the 2000's. They drew over 3 million fans 6 or 7 times in the 90's alone. They ranked 15th out of 30 last year, averaging right around 30,000 per game, which is still pretty good. The Rays would kill and maim to have attendance figures in line with Atlanta's of the past 20 years.

[Tyryztoll]

Originally Posted by MeInDenudinFL

Not really. Orlando Magic and Miami Heat sell full house. You just need a winning team te get folks to pay for it.

The Rays have been very competitive for several years now. If only an outright championship will bring people to the park, then they may as well move, because not even the best of the best can do that consistently in this day & age.

[DUNNDFRNT]

Originally Posted by The Northerner

The Rays have been very competitive for several years now. If only an outright championship will bring people to the park, then they may as well move, because not even the best of the best can do that consistently in this day & age.

Miami has the population base plus their new stadium and they can't fill their stadium either, i don't know that there is a single thing you can do. If you look at it in the sense that there are several factors: Location of the Stadium, Winning Team, Stadium itself, population base. I would think you need at least 3 of those things.

[BucFan]

This topic has been rehashed on this message board ad nauseam.

1. Poor location
2. Huge transplant demographic who refuse to support the local team
3. Huge elderly population who refuse to leave their condos.
4. Poor economy, housing crisis, unemployment
5. Population has wised-up not to live hand-to-mouth and save a few dollars in case they're hit with #4 above.
6. Almost every game of the season is broadcasted FREE on HDTV where people watch at home rather than make the journey to beautiful parts of St Pete (sarcasm intended).
7. No public transportation to the venue like the larger cities (NY, Boston, Chicago, etc).
8. Very little history w/ this franchise - and only recent success (last 3 out of 4 seasons), other than that they've been a basement dweller.
9. Very little corporate support (tickets, suites) - so no income stream to the team. Corporations in the area (Publix, Raymond James, Tropicana) can buy tickets in bulk and give them to customers, employees.

[JSnFla]

Originally Posted by BucFan

This topic has been rehashed on this message board ad nauseam.

1. Poor location
2. Huge transplant demographic who refuse to support the local team
3. Huge elderly population who refuse to leave their condos.
4. Poor economy, housing crisis, unemployment
5. Population has wised-up not to live hand-to-mouth and save a few dollars in case they're hit with #4 above.
6. Almost every game of the season is broadcasted FREE on HDTV where people watch at home rather than make the journey to beautiful parts of St Pete (sarcasm intended).
7. No public transportation to the venue like the larger cities (NY, Boston, Chicago, etc).
8. Very little history w/ this franchise - and only recent success (last 3 out of 4 seasons), other than that they've been a basement dweller.
9. Very little corporate support (tickets, suites) - so no income stream to the team. Corporations in the area (Publix, Raymond James, Tropicana) can buy tickets in bulk and give them to customers, employees.

old topic same reasons, the rays are gone the first real chance they get. of your reasons #4 is always the biggest obstacle, then certainly #2. Baseball is a long season, no way we can fill the seats for 81 games even if the stadium was in a super cool spot. There is no large scale corporate support, not enough major companies based out of here and u can keep listing other reasons forever

[Irishiis49]

Great post ^!

[tpajr]

Starting to sound like the fans and the corporations in the area are too cheap to support a major league baseball team and the trop is the final nail in the coffin. I dont get out to that area too much but it seems like the closest things around the trop are self storage and wholesale meat, not exactly a destination location.

[dnvrsoul]

Originally Posted by gypsychic

I agree with this ^^^, location, location, location. My husband and I discussed this recently. This location is terrible, hard to get to for a large majority of the population. If it were in Hillsborough, you can easily draw from all directions due to the interstates and not having to cross major bodies of water. Mayor Buckhorn would LOVE to have a new stadium built. I used to think that was not a good idea due to the large cost, but I have changed my mind. Not only would it be good for the Rays and their fans, but it would overall be good for the growth of the city of Tampa - a win-win, IMO. I know St. Pete wants to keep it because of the tax base and lease and all, but sometimes you gotta cut your losses. They could convert the Trop to some other creative use better suited to that location. Rays need to come to Tampa.

So what are the Bucs excuse?

It's because people live here but don't support the local teams-Yes I think Tropicana stinks but I attend at least 20-30 games a year. And I don't really like living here BUT I love the Rays -I'm not sure what the answer is...

I do attempt to attend 1 Bucs game a year as well...