If it's so easy being a teacher... (demand, government, universities)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

Ivory and Anonchick,
You are putting too much effort into defending one person's ownership of a particular type of car 30 years ago. Think about all the variables. It's silly.

That is the point. I have known more lower middle income people who drive Mercedes than rich people. Just because someone treats themselves to one thing, doesn't mean they make a lot of money. My FIL could have bought any car he wanted. Instead, he owned an 11 year old vehicle when he stopped driving. I had a neighbor in Detroit who drove a Mercedes. It was the only thing he owned. He lived with mom so he could afford it even though he didn't make much.

I know a teacher at a charter school who makes peanuts but goes to Europe every summer. THAT is his priority. He eats Ramen noodles all year so he can take that trip. He's not rich. He just puts what he has towards that one thing.

It's all about priorities. If I wanted to eat Hamburger Helper, get rid of cable and internet, turn down my thermostat to 60 degrees all winter, never go out to dinner, etc, etc, etc...I could drive a Mercedes too. Driving a Mercedes isn't important enough to me to do that. However, owning one doesn't mean I'm over paid. It just means I spent the money I have (or went into debt) for a car. Which, I, personally, think is stupid so I don't do it. Intead, I have a healthy 401K. THAT is my priority.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

I went to a public college prep magnet school for grades 7-12. Students had 7 class periods a day. The teachers taught only 4 or 5 classes a day. This means that they had at least 2 class periods a day to do their planning and grading. With the exception of the 2 chorus teachers I had in 7th grade the teachers at my school seldom had more than 120 students, and in the upper grades the number was more like 80.

And my 9th grade civics teacher was so under-worked that he had time to start his own business on the side- he opened a retail store in a local shopping mall. And yes, he owned his Mercedes before he opened his own business.

So don't complain about how overworked public school teachers are because by real world standards they are not overworked.

Your "real world standards" seem to be based upon a magical time machine journey back to your own personal experience and how you perceived things in 1984. You are taking that and making blanket statements about a whole profession today. It is kind of funny actually.

[BJW50]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

. People who work for public schools do not. They are considered "exempt" and they don't have social security taxes deducted, and therefore get -zilch- in SS payments when they turn 65. Their pension and retirement funs are their ONLY source of income once they retire.

That depends on the state. I know Nebraska school employees do.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

People who work for public schools do not. They are considered "exempt" and they don't have social security taxes deducted, and therefore get -zilch- in SS payments when they turn 65. Their pension and retirement funs are their ONLY source of income once they retire.

Actually the majority of teachers do pay into social security and do collect it. It is only 14 states that exclude teachers from SS.

Teachers and Social Security

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by BJW50

That depends on the state. I know Nebraska school employees do.

I have social security taxes withheld (sp?) for all the good that will do. I WISH they would give me that money to invest. I'm in Michigan, btw.

I've never heard of teachers being exempt from social security taxes.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

I went to a public college prep magnet school for grades 7-12. Students had 7 class periods a day. The teachers taught only 4 or 5 classes a day. This means that they had at least 2 class periods a day to do their planning and grading. With the exception of the 2 chorus teachers I had in 7th grade the teachers at my school seldom had more than 120 students, and in the upper grades the number was more like 80.

And my 9th grade civics teacher was so under-worked that he had time to start his own business on the side- he opened a retail store in a local shopping mall. And yes, he owned his Mercedes before he opened his own business.

So don't complain about how overworked public school teachers are because by real world standards they are not overworked.

So you think your little utopia represents the entire profession?

Here's my world. Teachers in my school average three preps (types of classes to prep for), have 140-180 students and get one 50 minute prep period per day. I don't know of any who are so underworked they have time to start a business but I do know teachers who are so broke they needed to even though it meant having no life.

By real world standards, most teachers work hard.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

I went to a public college prep magnet school for grades 7-12. Students had 7 class periods a day. The teachers taught only 4 or 5 classes a day. This means that they had at least 2 class periods a day to do their planning and grading. With the exception of the 2 chorus teachers I had in 7th grade the teachers at my school seldom had more than 120 students, and in the upper grades the number was more like 80.

And my 9th grade civics teacher was so under-worked that he had time to start his own business on the side- he opened a retail store in a local shopping mall. And yes, he owned his Mercedes before he opened his own business.

So don't complain about how overworked public school teachers are because by real world standards they are not overworked.

If anecdotal evidence is all that matters yours is easily countered by the fact that last year I taught every period of the day with no prep or anything off except a 20 min lunch.

This was not by choice.

Thank goodness this year I now get 30 mins of prep time a day if there is no other teacher sick that I need to cover their class for.

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

I went to a public college prep magnet school for grades 7-12. Students had 7 class periods a day.

Well duh...

1) This is a specialized magnet school that you're talking about, you can't flipping compare a magnet school to the standardized public school format. Apples to Oranges, my friend...Apples to Oranges . Regular public schools constitute 8+ classes per day with teachers having 6 or 7. You're not counting preps either...it takes time to prepair when you teach 3 preps split between drama/gen english/ac english. You can't do the same with each of them, bucco, and it does require a little bit of free time to plan for all of that .

2) Yeah..."teachers had two free periods a day", ummm..so that's a prep + a 30 minute lunch? Kind of standard accross the board. You have to eat and obviously can't teach kids while they're at an elective or eating themselves .

Please don't argue about things that you clearly haven't thought out in advance. And your business owning, Mercedes driving example could have done a LOT of things differently than what you realize. Nobody gets a handout as a teacher when it comes to pay. I'll use myself as an example, I'm 25 and can buy a Mercedes outright with what I have in my bank account. Want to know why? Because I've been living with family the past three years and save my cash like Scrooge on steroids. I've made average salaries of $35k as a district grant operator, $30k as a first year teacher, and then $33k as a second year teacher. Yes, I took a pay cut to be a teacher compared to my first job with a school district. Hardly Mercedes-buying money, huh? I'm looking to drop a downpayment on a house this Spring/Summer and can already see the "oh, how can a 25 year old afford that? And teachers complain about being underpaid..." type of comments rolling my way as a result. If not for living with my family, I'd probably not have a cent to my name in the bank because I'd be paycheck to paycheck. It's called good money management, working your tail off, sacrifice, and a lot of luck with your individual situation in life. I also work seasonal jobs, coach, and teach summer school by the way...this is all typical of teachers within 5 years of their pay scale since they can't really quite afford to do it entirely just on what they earn from teaching alone. Again, Mr. Mercedes either worked long enough to earn his keep, was very smart with his money to get to that point, or just had a lot of luck and someone to help him along.

I drive an '05 Cavalier with 110k miles on it.....am I too much of a high roller for you?

[AnonChick]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

But at the same time you generalize about working conditions for public school teachers. Your standard liberal assumption is that teachers are over-worked and under-paid.

I'm not generalizing anything, and I'm not the one making those assumptions, nor am I liberal. I'm not sure where you got that, but it didn't come from any of my posts.

I'm looking at how things are now, not in 1984. And how things are now, is that there are pockets of the country where educational systems are grossly underfunded. They lay off teachers and expect the remaining ones to teach more classes, for the same pay.

ALL certified public school teachers have to maintain their certifications, and this is done on their "vacation" time, and often paid for out of their own pockets. I'm not making any complaint about that - it's just how it is, and it's how it's been for a very long time.

The complaint, is that you (like many people) pretend all this added *mandatory and unpaid* work doesn't exist, and that the only thing teachers are paid for is 6.5 hours per day, 5 days per week, 180 days per year.

When people who acknowledge what teachers are *required* to do over and above their classroom time, THEN they will have room to complain. But if they were to acknowledge this, then they'd discover there really isn't all that much to complain about.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Florida Exodus

When's the last time someone making minimum wage bought a Mercedes?

When their spouse made significantly more than they did?