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i know there are teachers being laid off due to budget cuts, etc. I have heard of so few teachers being fired (without cause).
so if the question is how can a teacher demonstrate their worth to the supervisors etc so that the teacher can be retained on the payroll; that is a different question than how can teachers demonstrate their worth to society, students, the community, etc.
UGH. Respect is to hold in esteem. No I don't hold people in esteem for lifestyle choices. Lifestyle choices do not elevate your place in society. They don't result in you being held higher. People have every right to make them and live them but I'm not going to elevate their status because of them. Respect is something that is earned through accomplishment and doing things for others and that is not dependent on our lifestyle choices. What you do in private, you do in private. I really don't care. It's not my life.
funisart:
You seem to have a need to be held higher. Sorry but all people are equal in this society. Teachers are equal to engineers, as are housewives--as people. No one is held higher==we do not have a caste system.
You are hearing other peoples words through your own feelings. If you know that you are a good teacher--why care what anybody else thinks??
I'm not sure why the quote shading didn't work.
Last edited by JustJulia; 10-13-2011 at 06:08 AM..
Reason: seperate quote
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My point, which is being missed, is that respect is attached to character and accomplishment NOT to particular lifestyle choices. For example, I don't think parents deserve more respect that non parents. It's my choice to be a parent. If anything, I owe society because some day I'm going to send my kids out into society. I just don't think lifestyle choices are things we are respected for. They're just lifestyle choices and one is as good as the next.
People deserve to be treated with courtesy and given the right to make their own choices just for being people. Respect is something you earn by virtue of what you do. While it's true that our character is revealed by our choices, those choices are only to be respected when they accomplish something.
I really do miss not being dist respected for my profession. I'm one of the lucky ones though as I have options. This would be so much worse if I didn't.
Yup, they say this crap. The favorite is some statement to the fact I, obviously, couldn't cut it in the real world...as if teaching is SOOO much easier. This one annoys me the most because one of the reasons I went into teaching was to bring real world experience to the classroom. That was an epic fail. It turns out the assumption is that the reason I teach is I couldn't cut it as an engineer (apparently, doing something for two decades isn't enough to prove you can handle it) so my industrial experience is discounted. I think this is why people treat me better if they think I just couldn't find work in engineering. It wasn't my choice to quit so I must have been good????
Not sure that these are "peer reviewed", but they sound pretty convincing-
Maybe the other posters are right and you just aren't sure that you respect yourself for teaching, I don't know--Maybe because of the money, or maybe because of not doing something that you think matters. I have never heard anyone put down teaching as a profession. In an earlier post you said you wanted to be respected- like you were when you were an engineer. People who don't know engineers or doctors might be impressed, but to many people they are just husbands, wives, sons , daughters, and friends.
i know there are teachers being laid off due to budget cuts, etc. I have heard of so few teachers being fired (without cause).
so if the question is how can a teacher demonstrate their worth to the supervisors etc so that the teacher can be retained on the payroll; that is a different question than how can teachers demonstrate their worth to society, students, the community, etc.
well good luck, if you are facing job cuts.
we are at my work as well, and it is stressful.
That's right. There are two totally different answers. Therein lies the quandry....
As to teachers being fired. The easiest thing to do is lay them off and never call them back. Then you don't have to actually fire them to get rid of them and you leave no recourse for legal action. When I was fired, I was given a choice between quitting and being terminated without cause. Quitting would have looked better to future employers but it would have cost me the right to draw unemployment so I chose termination without cause.
Maybe the other posters are right and you just aren't sure that you respect yourself for teaching, I don't know--Maybe because of the money, or maybe because of not doing something that you think matters. I have never heard anyone put down teaching as a profession. In an earlier post you said you wanted to be respected- like you were when you were an engineer. People who don't know engineers or doctors might be impressed, but to many people they are just husbands, wives, sons , daughters, and friends.
No, it's not just my feelings on the matter. If I respected engineers and disrespected teachers, I wouldn't have become a teacher. People really do treat me differently now that I'm in teaching. It's like they think I copped out and took the easy way out. And there was a definite respect for engineers when I was in engineering. Even my doctor was impressed. When I told her I wanted to become a teacher, she gave me a funny look and asked why I wanted to to THAT.
The other half of why I struggle with this is the realization that my subject matter expertise is neither needed or wanted. Flexible teachers who are certified to teach lots of subjects are desired by districts and the way we measure success, you don't need someone with subject matter expertise. You just need someone who can work two weeks ahead of the students because the focus is not on a high level of education. It's on the bottom of the class.
No, it's not just my feelings on the matter. If I respected engineers and disrespected teachers, I wouldn't have become a teacher. People really do treat me differently now that I'm in teaching. It's like they think I copped out and took the easy way out. And there was a definite respect for engineers when I was in engineering. Even my doctor was impressed. When I told her I wanted to become a teacher, she gave me a funny look and asked why I wanted to to THAT.
The other half of why I struggle with this is the realization that my subject matter expertise is neither needed or wanted. Flexible teachers who are certified to teach lots of subjects are desired by districts and the way we measure success, you don't need someone with subject matter expertise. You just need someone who can work two weeks ahead of the students because the focus is not on a high level of education. It's on the bottom of the class.
I also came from a profession where I was accorded more outward respect. As a scientist, people were more likely to express a positive opinion of my career than they do now that I am a teacher. On the other hand the only one that effects me directly is that of parents who undermine my authority or cause problems for me at school. And yes, many parents disrespect teachers as a profession, inherently.
And my two cents about respect. All people deserve a modicum of respect based on being human beings on this planet outright. But once I know more about people I can respect individual things about them, or not. For example, I know someone who spent two years doing doctors without borders. I respect him just for being a doctor (it is very hard to become one and the fact he made it is worthy of respect). I respect that he donated his time to such an amazing cause as doctors without borders. But I also disrespect him on a personal level because he is such a misogynistic pig. So I do believe some occupations warrant more respect than others. I certainly respect the OCCUPATION of firefighting far more than I even do my own occupations as teacher and scientist. I do not run into burning buildings to save lives. That does not mean I disrespect my own professions or any other just that I have more for some than others.
Another example, I respect all mother's inherently because I know how hard pregnancy and delivery can be, "mothering" itself can be easy or hard depending on the individual. But I really respect my one friend because I know how hard her pregnancy was, the sacrifices she made along the way of that pregnancy, and the fact thatshe is the best mother I know. I am going to respect her mothering far more than I am some random stranger who is a SAHM or WM because I have no idea what they went through as mothers beyond the basics.
I also came from a profession where I was accorded more outward respect. As a scientist, people were more likely to express a positive opinion of my career than they do now that I am a teacher. On the other hand the only one that effects me directly is that of parents who undermine my authority or cause problems for me at school. And yes, many parents disrespect teachers as a profession, inherently.
And my two cents about respect. All people deserve a modicum of respect based on being human beings on this planet outright. But once I know more about people I can respect individual things about them, or not. For example, I know someone who spent two years doing doctors without borders. I respect him just for being a doctor (it is very hard to become one and the fact he made it is worthy of respect). I respect that he donated his time to such an amazing cause as doctors without borders. But I also disrespect him on a personal level because he is such a misogynistic pig. So I do believe some occupations warrant more respect than others. I certainly respect the OCCUPATION of firefighting far more than I even do my own occupations as teacher and scientist. I do not run into burning buildings to save lives. That does not mean I disrespect my own professions or any other just that I have more for some than others.
Another example, I respect all mother's inherently because I know how hard pregnancy and delivery can be, "mothering" itself can be easy or hard depending on the individual. But I really respect my one friend because I know how hard her pregnancy was, the sacrifices she made along the way of that pregnancy, and the fact thatshe is the best mother I know. I am going to respect her mothering far more than I am some random stranger who is a SAHM or WM because I have no idea what they went through as mothers beyond the basics.
Off Topic: I agree with this about respect. For me personally, I respect all people equally until they do something that warrants disrespect. The problem I have with the OP, is that she seems to think that SAHMs don't contribute to society, so therefore, because there is no contribution they don't deserve the same respect as say a doctor, or a scientist. I disagree vehemently with this thought process.
I, like other posters, don't see that teachers aren't worthy, I don't think they are lazy, or get time off, or work nice hours. I do think that the pay is lousy, but I also think that there are some not so great teachers out there being protected by the union. Great teachers have a lasting impact on a child, and so do not so great teachers. The way teachers can prove their worth is by being good teachers. In my area, if all of sudden the school system decided to lay off some teachers. And both my son and daughter's teachers were on the chopping block, I would be at the super's office faster than you can say PTA for my daughter's teacher, because she is a great teacher. My son's teacher, not so much. Parents will defend good teachers. When there was a round of lay offs in MN, my parents went to PTA meetings to defend one of my teachers. And being a good teacher doesn't mean caving some a-hole who wants their kid to get an A, even though the kid deserves a B, so Johnny can get into MIT. Being a good teacher means listening to parents concerns, communicating with parents, and being honest with parents.
I also came from a profession where I was accorded more outward respect. As a scientist, people were more likely to express a positive opinion of my career than they do now that I am a teacher. On the other hand the only one that effects me directly is that of parents who undermine my authority or cause problems for me at school. And yes, many parents disrespect teachers as a profession, inherently.
And my two cents about respect. All people deserve a modicum of respect based on being human beings on this planet outright. But once I know more about people I can respect individual things about them, or not. For example, I know someone who spent two years doing doctors without borders. I respect him just for being a doctor (it is very hard to become one and the fact he made it is worthy of respect). I respect that he donated his time to such an amazing cause as doctors without borders. But I also disrespect him on a personal level because he is such a misogynistic pig. So I do believe some occupations warrant more respect than others. I certainly respect the OCCUPATION of firefighting far more than I even do my own occupations as teacher and scientist. I do not run into burning buildings to save lives. That does not mean I disrespect my own professions or any other just that I have more for some than others.
Another example, I respect all mother's inherently because I know how hard pregnancy and delivery can be, "mothering" itself can be easy or hard depending on the individual. But I really respect my one friend because I know how hard her pregnancy was, the sacrifices she made along the way of that pregnancy, and the fact thatshe is the best mother I know. I am going to respect her mothering far more than I am some random stranger who is a SAHM or WM because I have no idea what they went through as mothers beyond the basics.
I agree. As I said, everyone gets basic respect for being human but you have to demonstrate that you deserve to be elevated higher. I disagree on mothers though. I don't think going through a pregnancy proves I'm more respectable than, say, someone who wanted kids but chose not to have them for altruistic reasons. I respect my best friend for choosing not to be a mother more than I respect myself for being one. She wanted kids but there is a risk she will pass a genetic condition to them that will likely end her life prematurely. I think she deserves more respect than me for going through two pregnancies. She did the hard thing. I think I did the easy one. I don't respect parents more than non parents until they show they deserve more respect.
I do respect certain professions more than others because of the requirements just to get into the profession and people like firemen who run into burning buildings but they have demonstrated by what they've accomplished that they are deserving of more respect. I'm puzzled as to why John Q Public has placed teachers on the to be disrespected list. It's like being a teacher is now some kind of crime.
funisart:
You seem to have a need to be held higher. Sorry but all people are equal in this society. Teachers are equal to engineers, as are housewives--as people. No one is held higher==we do not have a caste system.
You are hearing other peoples words through your own feelings. If you know that you are a good teacher--why care what anybody else thinks??
I'm not sure why the quote shading didn't work.
People are afforded basic respect just for being human. Then there is the respect that is earned by what we do. Some professions deserve respect because of the difficulty of getting into the profession or the difficulty of the job itself. For example, doctors. I think doctors deserve respect. They have to accomplish a lot just for the right to call themselves doctors. Some positions command respect, like firemen and policemen.
And no, I do not have a need to be held higher. If I did, I would have stayed in engineering. What I have a need for is not to be openly disrespected as I am as a teacher. That has to end. That's why I'm returning to engineering after my daugther graduates. I have no desire to stay in a profession that is disrespected as things are. If there were a shortage of chemistry teachers, I'd stay and justify doing so because I was filling a need but I'm not. As soon as my job posts, there will be a dozen applicants to choose from. I do have a need to be needed.
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no holding higher
