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Old 04-15-2013, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Merit pay only works in competitive industries. Teaching is not competitive. Districts do not try to outbid each other for the best teachers. On the contrary, they try to get the cheapest teacher they can who can do the job reasonably because that way they have more money for other things.

You're trying to implement something here designed to be used elsewhere. You're trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Before merit pay can have a ghost of a chance of working, you need to get districts competing with each other for the best teachers. THAT is never going to happen any more than cities compete for the best police or firemen. Some jobs simply are not competitive. Merit pay does nothing for them.
Actually, for someone like me, who shies away from competition, it is actually counterproductive. Being in competition with someone makes me sick to my stomach. Those who propose merit may say that it is not a competition, but we all know full well that is how it will work out. When you have a ten or twenty thousand dollar carrot out there, the most ruthless are going to vie for it. I am not going to lie, cheat, steal, or be underhanded for the bonus. This has already played out nationally; most recently, in Atlanta.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,554,254 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
Actually, for someone like me, who shies away from competition, it is actually counterproductive. Being in competition with someone makes me sick to my stomach. Those who propose merit may say that it is not a competition, but we all know full well that is how it will work out. When you have a ten or twenty thousand dollar carrot out there, the most ruthless are going to vie for it. I am not going to lie, cheat, steal, or be underhanded for the bonus. This has already played out nationally; most recently, in Atlanta.
That too. One thing about teaching that draws some to teaching is that is is non competitive. We only compete for open positions. Once in somewhere, we rarely move. The system is set up that way.

Teaching also differs from industry in how we are assessed. When I was in industry, my work was observed by many. My boss would have a hard timd justifying a bad or good PR that wasn't warranted because I worked in the public eye. Other managers knew of my work, customers knew my work and my fellow employees were aware of the quality of my work. In teaching, I'm evaluated on two days per year when my principal comes into my room and watches me teach. I am very much at his mercy.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:42 PM
 
Location: A little corner of paradise
687 posts, read 1,494,817 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Teaching also differs from industry in how we are assessed. When I was in industry, my work was observed by many. My boss would have a hard timd justifying a bad or good PR that wasn't warranted because I worked in the public eye. Other managers knew of my work, customers knew my work and my fellow employees were aware of the quality of my work. In teaching, I'm evaluated on two days per year when my principal comes into my room and watches me teach. I am very much at his mercy.
My school had a new administrator the first year we implemented my class for expelled students. She was afraid of my kids so she rarely came to my room. We had my evaluation meeting anyway, where she asked me to clarify my schedule. I told her we spent an hour on reading, another on math, switched between history and science, etc. Her response,
"Oh, you actually teach them academics?" This was MAY and she had no idea what went on in my class, outside of the frequent drug busts and violent outbursts. How does that work in a merit pay system???
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaRed View Post
My school had a new administrator the first year we implemented my class for expelled students. She was afraid of my kids so she rarely came to my room. We had my evaluation meeting anyway, where she asked me to clarify my schedule. I told her we spent an hour on reading, another on math, switched between history and science, etc. Her response,
"Oh, you actually teach them academics?" This was MAY and she had no idea what went on in my class, outside of the frequent drug busts and violent outbursts. How does that work in a merit pay system???
Well, the proponents of merit pay want us to use the CRT test scores. They don't want it to be based on subjective evaluations by one person.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaRed View Post
My school had a new administrator the first year we implemented my class for expelled students. She was afraid of my kids so she rarely came to my room. We had my evaluation meeting anyway, where she asked me to clarify my schedule. I told her we spent an hour on reading, another on math, switched between history and science, etc. Her response,
"Oh, you actually teach them academics?" This was MAY and she had no idea what went on in my class, outside of the frequent drug busts and violent outbursts. How does that work in a merit pay system???
I guess in your case the fact that the police weren't called to go into your classroom to do any drug busts or quell violent outbursts should rate you A+.

Sounds like you have a hard job and I commend you for doing it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: A little corner of paradise
687 posts, read 1,494,817 times
Reputation: 1243
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I guess in your case the fact that the police weren't called to go into your classroom to do any drug busts or quell violent outbursts should rate you A+.
I loved the kids, even with all their issues. Unfortunately, I not able to teach anymore. I got a head injury while breaking up a fight. (Due to budget cuts we only had one security guard, and he was busy.)
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:49 AM
 
684 posts, read 1,122,740 times
Reputation: 286
Conservatives should be allowed NO WHERE NEAR a class room. The notion of them spreading their narrow minded filth to a new generation is a true tragedy. We do not need youngsters to adopt ideologically poisonous views on race, class, gender or immigration.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,868 posts, read 6,933,785 times
Reputation: 10185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
Conservatives should be allowed NO WHERE NEAR a class room. The notion of them spreading their narrow minded filth to a new generation is a true tragedy. We do not need youngsters to adopt ideologically poisonous views on race, class, gender or immigration.
Funny, that's exactly the same view I have about ultra-libs.

We probably won't agree about much, but my view is that the extreme fringes of both conservatives and liberal progressives are nuts. I do feel that the extreme left dictates policies to left leaning people much more than the extreme right does.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,720,684 times
Reputation: 9829
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
Conservatives should be allowed NO WHERE NEAR a class room. The notion of them spreading their narrow minded filth to a new generation is a true tragedy. We do not need youngsters to adopt ideologically poisonous views on race, class, gender or immigration.
Truly an open-minded post here.

Ah, irony, you entertain yet again.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by mintgum84 View Post
Conservatives should be allowed NO WHERE NEAR a class room. The notion of them spreading their narrow minded filth to a new generation is a true tragedy. We do not need youngsters to adopt ideologically poisonous views on race, class, gender or immigration.
Yeah, I know what you mean. This conservative (note the lower case) suggested we make use of the Math textbooks for supplemental work instead of only worksheet handouts and got their hand slapped for the mere suggestion of anything broaching traditional education.
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