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It may may or may not be true in your case, but through the years almost every time I have heard people in that same situation say the same thing I could have explained to them why they weren't getting hired, and it had nothing to do with anyone or anything other than themselves. If you are a good sub/part-time teacher working in a school, which gives the staff, teachers, and principals a chance to get to know you and witness your teaching, it often helps you get a job, whether because they have an opening or because they know someone at another school that does and recommend you or provide you with a reference. However, on the flip side, if you have an issue it assures you will never, ever get a job there or in any school with an employee that knows someone at that school, whereas you might have had a slim chance if you were an unknown. It is not unusual for a less than stellar teacher to be totally unaware of their flaws, even when an administrator or another teacher tries to give them a heads up, advice, or even outright tells them. If you aren't getting hired, but especially if you don't even get interviews, when you work at a school enough that they know you well and are aware you are interested in the job, it might be a good time to reevaluate your job performance and suitability.
Nepotism and cronyism are a reality in every career field, at least in education they have to still pass certain hurdles such as certification.
Except in my area, as you have seen from other posters from this part of the world who complain that they have been subbing for 6 or more years and still don't get considered for a job. It doesn't matter if you have the capability to keep the classes under control as a sub, prepare and bring in your own materials, flexible, never complain. Just doesn't matter. If a person's last name is Tancredi, most likely he/she is a teacher because that is one of the Five Teaching Families. And there are others all connected like a graphic organizer. The result is that there is not only ethnic segregation among the students, but among the district staff as well. African-American districts have AA teachers, Italian-Jewish districts have Italian-Jewish teachers and now southeastern Asian districts have Asian teachers. Of course, a few different ethnicities are sprinkled in here and there to avoid discrimination law suits and for bilingual and ESL education, but as the demographics here have changed, you can see the ethnicity of the staff changing, along with the students, even though each district is separated by less than 5 miles and has less than 2,000 students total. But when they advertise a position and have interviews, the applicant pool is a rainbow. What the other poster mentioned, her story about an office staff member going to school at the expense of the district, to get certification and then getting hired, passing over all the subs in the district, and all the highly experienced applicants who have written textbooks, journal articles, and whatnot is highly credible. That person also got her administrative job through a relative. And here it's not just teaching. It's like this throughout all of the public sector. To get a civil service job, you have to take a test. Just like getting cert. to show that the applicant has a baseline of ability. But people with lower scores will get offers before someone with higher scores (that includes the extra points for veteran status) for jobs. None of this is a secret in my area. This is not "networking" or the hiring practices in private industry.
None of this would happen if we had teacher shortages as they do in other parts of the country. The local joke here is that it is easier to find a "good man/woman" than to find a rent controlled apartment, a teaching job, or a civil service job.
Years ago, the president of the local chamber of commerce wanted to buy my house so that he could use the land to expand his own business. Part of the offer included "talking to some principals" on my behalf. I didn't sell and of course, he didn't talk to any principals.
Sure you can explain why they didn't hire a particular person. What is harder to explain is why they hired the person that they did hire.
My district prefers to hire family members, but they will definitely hire outside of the "family".
Let's say there is a math teacher opening. If Mrs. Smith's son is a math teacher, he will probably get the job regardless of the qualifications of the other applicants.
We have three husband and wife teacher groups, two sisters working in the guidance office, and two brothers.
In our local school I can point to a couple teachers being daughters of former school board members (hired while they WERE school board members), a daughter of a former principal, a close friend of a school board member's daughter, ex-quarterback for the football team, a close friend of a former principal, a close friend of a school board member, relative of a school employee, wife of a former student, and a couple former students.
This is just what I can think of.
Now, I know several of these people well and most I believe ARE qualified. Since they have a connection to the school, they're probably going to be more of a long term employee which is good. Was it a fair competition for these jobs? Doubtful in most of the hiring processes.
Except in my area, as you have seen from other posters from this part of the world who complain that they have been subbing for 6 or more years and still don't get considered for a job. It doesn't matter if you have the capability to keep the classes under control as a sub, prepare and bring in your own materials, flexible, never complain. Just doesn't matter. If a person's last name is Tancredi, most likely he/she is a teacher because that is one of the Five Teaching Families. And there are others all connected like a graphic organizer. The result is that there is not only ethnic segregation among the students, but among the district staff as well. African-American districts have AA teachers, Italian-Jewish districts have Italian-Jewish teachers and now southeastern Asian districts have Asian teachers. Of course, a few different ethnicities are sprinkled in here and there to avoid discrimination law suits and for bilingual and ESL education, but as the demographics here have changed, you can see the ethnicity of the staff changing, along with the students, even though each district is separated by less than 5 miles and has less than 2,000 students total. But when they advertise a position and have interviews, the applicant pool is a rainbow.
If they are only hiring from the Five Teaching Families how are they getting Blacks and Asians? Ideally, as the demographics of the students change so should the demographics of the teachers and staff. More concerning, and more common, is when the teaching staff is lacking in teachers of the predominate student demographic. Hiring demographic changes do tend to lag behind student changes though because a teacher stays a long time, 30 years spans over multiple generations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
What the other poster mentioned, her story about an office staff member going to school at the expense of the district, to get certification and then getting hired, passing over all the subs in the district, and all the highly experienced applicants who have written textbooks, journal articles, and whatnot is highly credible. That person also got her administrative job through a relative.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a school district "growing their own" and many districts are very upfront about these types of programs. A lot of businesses do that, even the military does. Why? Because they are a known entity, they know the person's abilities, personality, and work ethic. They also know their shortcomings. In other words, there are no ugly surprises that were missed in the hiring process. It is also a way to reward good, loyal employees. Plus research has shown these type programs increase lower level employee morale and the employee is less likely to quit or be fired.
The ability to write textbooks and journal articles does not necessarily translate into the ability to effectively teach. Writing about education requires a different skill set than practicing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
None of this would happen if we had teacher shortages as they do in other parts of the country.
Agree. Another measure would be if your state legislature passed laws that didn't allow employees to be related to school board members, superintendents, or principals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
Sure you can explain why they didn't hire a particular person. What is harder to explain is why they hired the person that they did hire.
As a military wife who was also a teacher, I have waded through the hiring process more than most teachers. I even worked in at least one district that had a cronyism/nepotism reputation. I had the added handicap of hiring principals knowing I was probably only going to be there a couple of years. However, with rare exception I repeatedly got hired, often after subbing. There were times I got hired over fellow subs who had been there more years than I had. Most of the time I could have probably accurately told you why I got hired over a particular sub. Like I said earlier, many people are off base in their self-assessment of their abilities or more importantly in most of these cases, their shortcomings. Many of those subs/teachers' aides did themselves no favors by allowing schools a chance to get to know them. What I can assure you was never a factor in my hiring was a long term relationship with those that hired me, because it simply didn't exist.
Does this mean I think it doesn't happen? Nope, I know it does and definitely in some place more than others. But I don't think it is any worse than in businesses. Everyone has heard the boss's son examples. Jobs given to a current employee over a stranger is a very commonplace practice, and even expected. Jobs given to a person a current employee recommends over a person with recommendations of an unknown person is normal. A lot of businesses use temp agencies to test drive employees, that's how my daughter got her first professional job. I guess what I'm saying is that this shouldn't be a surprise. Jobs for the best company in the area a person already lives in have always been coveted, especially if it is almost the only game in town. Where my family is from it was IBM when I was younger and there were always complaints of cronyism and nepotism from those who couldn't get hired there.
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The point is, Old Hag, is that if you are going to hire family or a crony, why bother to spend adminstrators' time on advertising, giving hope to THOUSANDS of hopeful candidates that they may win the lottery, make them give up a day of work, spend money on clothes and transportation, spend money and time on materials for a demo for a job that was filled weeks earlier because as they say in the lottery ads, "you never know" or you have to be in it to win it." Why so much dishonesty? Why waste the time of not only the candidates but the staff that sets up the interviews, the pta members who come to the interviews and demos, the teachers who clear their class time for an applicant to give a demo, the teachers who get pulled out of their classroom to sit in on interviews, take away genuine learning time from the students, all for nothing. At least in a private office environment where there is already a pre-selected candidate, children are not affected. It's waste, waste, waste.
Long Island is not like the Maryland Washington or Baltimore suburbs where segregation is based more on class and there are middle-class African Americans and Whites and Asians all living in the same town. I have found more integration in the South than here in NYC metro suburbs. It's still very much a tale of West Side story-Italians stay on your side of the line, Puerto Ricans on your side. Sure people mingle to shop, work, etc. It's not 1950. But buying real estate and real estate determines where your child goes to school is not integrated.
As you said, with changing demographics, starting over the past 20 years, veteran teachers will remain and until there is a complete turnover, there will be some racial diversity. I never said that the "Five Families" were all white. I just can't believe with the large pool of applicants that only "white teachers" are the best new candidates in the white districts and only Indian teachers are the "best new teacher candidates" in the Indian districts and so on. And the non-white majority districts are not necessarily underperforming. There are some white underperforming districts. They all have pretty decent equipment, extra-curriculars, AP classes, etc. but it's separate and somewhat "equal."
And here, being published is a huge huge deal, whether it's a journal article or a book or whatever. You won't get tenure without it. You start small with some sort of blog or activity suggestion to one of the education journal and then work your way up. Also it is imperative to have some sort of leadership role in one of the education organizations if you want to keep your job. Do these criteria mean that the person is a good teacher? Not any more than the requirement for looking pretty or at least very polished by the expensive local salons. Are these people as "smart" as it appears in their portfolios? Not necessarily. But hey, you need to show the residents who are paying 15-20K a year in property taxes, 80% of which are used for the school district, that they are getting something for their money. It's all P.R. I have a whole portfolio of newspaper clippings about myself. My beef is to at least stop the scam for all of the young people graduating from the 30+local teacher programs and stop wasting the time of the public school students.
We also don't have county schools as they do in other parts of the US. There are a handful of communities with true diversity with truly diverse schools, but not many. And of course, most town demographics have 1-5 percent of some other group that is not in the mainstream, including myself. Statistics are misleading. Some of the uber-rich towns have had a small segregated section of Hispanics and African-Americans for over a 100 years and the students do go to the public schools, although designated for a specific elementary school. Their ancestors cleaned the mansions.
The point is, Old Hag, is that if you are going to hire family or a crony, why bother to spend adminstrators' time on advertising, giving hope to THOUSANDS of hopeful candidates that they may win the lottery, make them give up a day of work, spend money on clothes and transportation, spend money and time on materials for a demo for a job that was filled weeks earlier because as they say in the lottery ads, "you never know" or you have to be in it to win it." Why so much dishonesty? Why waste the time of not only the candidates but the staff that sets up the interviews, the pta members who come to the interviews and demos, the teachers who clear their class time for an applicant to give a demo, the teachers who get pulled out of their classroom to sit in on interviews, take away genuine learning time from the students, all for nothing. At least in a private office environment where there is already a pre-selected candidate, children are not affected. It's waste, waste, waste.
Long Island is not like the Maryland Washington or Baltimore suburbs where segregation is based more on class and there are middle-class African Americans and Whites and Asians all living in the same town. I have found more integration in the South than here in NYC metro suburbs. It's still very much a tale of West Side story-Italians stay on your side of the line, Puerto Ricans on your side. Sure people mingle to shop, work, etc. It's not 1950. But buying real estate and real estate determines where your child goes to school is not integrated.
As you said, with changing demographics, starting over the past 20 years, veteran teachers will remain and until there is a complete turnover, there will be some racial diversity. I never said that the "Five Families" were all white. I just can't believe with the large pool of applicants that only "white teachers" are the best new candidates in the white districts and only Indian teachers are the "best new teacher candidates" in the Indian districts and so on. And the non-white majority districts are not necessarily underperforming. There are some white underperforming districts. They all have pretty decent equipment, extra-curriculars, AP classes, etc. but it's separate and somewhat "equal."
And here, being published is a huge huge deal, whether it's a journal article or a book or whatever. You won't get tenure without it. You start small with some sort of blog or activity suggestion to one of the education journal and then work your way up. Also it is imperative to have some sort of leadership role in one of the education organizations if you want to keep your job. Do these criteria mean that the person is a good teacher? Not any more than the requirement for looking pretty or at least very polished by the expensive local salons. Are these people as "smart" as it appears in their portfolios? Not necessarily. But hey, you need to show the residents who are paying 15-20K a year in property taxes, 80% of which are used for the school district, that they are getting something for their money. It's all P.R. I have a whole portfolio of newspaper clippings about myself. My beef is to at least stop the scam for all of the young people graduating from the 30+local teacher programs and stop wasting the time of the public school students.
We also don't have county schools as they do in other parts of the US. There are a handful of communities with true diversity with truly diverse schools, but not many. And of course, most town demographics have 1-5 percent of some other group that is not in the mainstream, including myself. Statistics are misleading. Some of the uber-rich towns have had a small segregated section of Hispanics and African-Americans for over a 100 years and the students do go to the public schools, although designated for a specific elementary school. Their ancestors cleaned the mansions.
Prospective teachers in our school district do not get that dog and pony show. They are interviewed by HR (one person) and then if they make it to round 2, they do a group interview with HR, a subject leader in the subject they are interviewing for if it's secondary, and the building Principal. The HR person winnows down the second round finalists to a handful of people. I am unaware of any push at all for publishing. We want good teachers. period. I think I'm happy to be living in an area that values education.
The point is, Old Hag, is that if you are going to hire family or a crony, why bother to spend adminstrators' time on advertising, giving hope to THOUSANDS of hopeful candidates that they may win the lottery, make them give up a day of work, spend money on clothes and transportation, spend money and time on materials for a demo for a job that was filled weeks earlier because as they say in the lottery ads, "you never know" or you have to be in it to win it." Why so much dishonesty? Why waste the time of not only the candidates but the staff that sets up the interviews, the pta members who come to the interviews and demos, the teachers who clear their class time for an applicant to give a demo, the teachers who get pulled out of their classroom to sit in on interviews, take away genuine learning time from the students, all for nothing. At least in a private office environment where there is already a pre-selected candidate, children are not affected. It's waste, waste, waste.
I know in many states public jobs, to include jobs in schools, are required to be published and applications accepted for a certain time frame except under specific special circumstances. Why are finalist screening interviews being held during instructional time? I agree if a school is going to require the candidate to do a sample lesson, especially to students, it should only be for one of the 2/3 final candidates and there ought to be a legitimate chance that they could be hired. If they are doing the dog-and-pony shows for multiple candidates they have no intention of hiring it is probably to satisfy some outside source, such as a union or the state department of education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
And here, being published is a huge huge deal, whether it's a journal article or a book or whatever. You won't get tenure without it. You start small with some sort of blog or activity suggestion to one of the education journal and then work your way up. Also it is imperative to have some sort of leadership role in one of the education organizations if you want to keep your job. Do these criteria mean that the person is a good teacher? Not any more than the requirement for looking pretty or at least very polished by the expensive local salons. Are these people as "smart" as it appears in their portfolios? Not necessarily. But hey, you need to show the residents who are paying 15-20K a year in property taxes, 80% of which are used for the school district, that they are getting something for their money. It's all P.R. I have a whole portfolio of newspaper clippings about myself. My beef is to at least stop the scam for all of the young people graduating from the 30+local teacher programs and stop wasting the time of the public school students.
I have never heard of a public K-12 school that required publishing - either to get hired or to get tenured. That is just stupid and has zero correlation to someone's ability to teach.
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But the doggies and the ponies will continue to stand at the entrance gates, praying and hoping and shouting "pick me, pick me" year after year until they finally give up because if you want to be a teacher, this is where you get that brass ring, if you can catch it. If you can get in and hold out, stand the pressure cooker of keeping that image of perfection to make everyone happy, after 10-12 years the salary starts to get into the 6 figures, assuming you comply with the mandated continuing education credits. Marry another teacher also making the same salary and you can have a pretty decent life, even in this high cost of living area. Retire after age 55 and then move where you want. Very similar path and track for the 2 Long Island major police forces. Similar situations, except they can finish up with a 300k salary so their spouses often stay home to raise the kids while the cops work weekends and nights and long shifts.
This is why I get angry about the hiring process in my area. I remember when this woman was hired, fully connected and able to get this job through the inside. She resigned from being department chair last year when the allegations came out. When she was younger, she was very pretty and had that look they go after. Public records show that she was making 136K 3 years ago. I also recognize the name of one of the male teacher victims, another member of a local teaching family. I am aware that this stuff happens everywhere and that many of the people who do get hired through connections are really competent teachers. I just find it annoying how unfair the hiring process is around here and that only picking from the inside doesn't mean that bad apples aren't part of the bunch.
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