Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't teach in CA but I have had to deal with all of the problems that you have listed.
I could address each and every one, but I won't--there are so many problems with the public schools in this country that analyzing them would take forever but, more importantly, would be completely fruitless.
In short, if you don't agree with how the schools are being run, then I would try to find a school that agrees with you a bit better (i.e. something in the private sector.) In fact, this is what most teachers (myself included) are doing because they realize that they are fighting a losing battle and that the system is unfairly weighted against them. And, unfortunately, if you stay and tolerate this kind of treatment, it does not stimulate the necessary impetus for it to change.
Aside from leaving, I would try to organize with the local teachers' union (if there is one.) I am nearly certain that other teachers feel the same way that you do (and if they don't, then you definitely need to look for employment elsewhere.)
Suffice to stay, I feel your pain. I left the public school system, and found employment in the private sector. It doesn't pay as much but I am so much happier.
Good point! I am a teacher looking at moving into the private sector as well. If my financial aid goes through, I am hoping to move into health care. Anyway, teachers do spend a lot of time outside of school. Yes, teachers put up with a lot. Unsupportive administration, uninvolved parents, disruptive students, low pay and so on. I feel your pain.
Anyhow, I don't think that teachers are the only ones putting up with a lot. My friend is fighting in Iraq right now with the National Guard. She is only going to get 15,000 dollars for a year tour of duty. Police officers are underpaid for putting their lives on the line to keep a community safe. Border patrol agents are putting up with a lot. Firefighters, paramedics, police officers, soldiers all put in very long hours and spend a lot of time away from their families. No, us teachers are not the only ones.
Good point! I am a teacher looking at moving into the private sector as well. If my financial aid goes through, I am hoping to move into health care. Anyway, teachers do spend a lot of time outside of school. Yes, teachers put up with a lot. Unsupportive administration, uninvolved parents, disruptive students, low pay and so on. I feel your pain.
Anyhow, I don't think that teachers are the only ones putting up with a lot. My friend is fighting in Iraq right now with the National Guard. She is only going to get 15,000 dollars for a year tour of duty. Police officers are underpaid for putting their lives on the line to keep a community safe. Border patrol agents are putting up with a lot. Firefighters, paramedics, police officers, soldiers all put in very long hours and spend a lot of time away from their families. No, us teachers are not the only ones.
Agreed, but I have heard of police and firemen with about my years of service easily making over 100,000 a year in extra duty, and they didn't have to invest in earning a MA degree like I h ave to just make 10 grand less than them in over time, nor pay for a license every five years. So any service jobs don't pay what we are worth, and policmen and fire fighters run a greater risk than teachers in being killed, then again, kids are bring more guns to schools than ever before, and Columbine isn't that long ago for it to be repeated again.
Agreed, but I have heard of police and firemen with about my years of service easily making over 100,000 a year in extra duty, and they didn't have to invest in earning a MA degree like I h ave to just make 10 grand less than them in over time....
Edit: Double posted for some reason, see below.
Last edited by user_id; 05-08-2009 at 03:59 PM..
Reason: Double posted.
Agreed, but I have heard of police and firemen with about my years of service easily making over 100,000 a year in extra duty, and they didn't have to invest in earning a MA degree like I h ave to just make 10 grand less than them in over time....
This is just so silly....and is rather telling. You think your degree is so important...god forbidden someone with out one makes more! Geez..
Firstly, police/firefighters/paramedics don't get paid dramatically more than teaches. But secondly lets review why they get a decent salary.
- They risk their lives
- Their job is physically demanding (Firefighters/paramedics often go 24 hours without sleep, etc).
Now, I know teachers will love to equate dealing with that "problem kid" in their class to pulling dead bodies out of car crashes. But the reality is that police/firefighters have it much harder than teachers and their pay reflects that. Teachers get paid relatively well because they have to get degrees etc, police/firefighters get paid relatively well because their job is physically demanding and risky.
And that extra duty? You mean like when they are risking their lives protecting you from wild fires?
Geez, you think teaching in an inner city is bad...trying being a police/firefighter in one...
[QUOTE=user_id;8719230]This is just so silly....and is rather telling. You think your degree is so important...god forbidden someone with out one makes more! Geez..
I never said that BOTH of my degrees are more important than anyone or anyone's job. You ASSumed that I was putting my degrees over policemen and firemen's salary. They are public servants just like I am, my job is just as stressfull and demanding as theirs, but under TOTALLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMUMSTANCES.
Firstly, police/firefighters/paramedics don't get paid dramatically more than teaches. But secondly lets review why they get a decent salary.
You seem to forget that policemen can start right out of high school after going to a police academy training, and that doesn't take 6 years to complete.
On the other hand, teachers have to at least earn a BA, then after earning a BA, the state of CA wants to get more money from us by making us train for another two years just to get a DUMB teaching credential as you have said in a previous post, so teachers are in college the equivalent of 6 years instead of four, and we haven't become permanent teachers yet. By a policeman's or fireman's 6th year, they are well into their careers.
You seem to forget too that firemen and policemen aren't in any student loan debt like many teachers (unless they did it just for the sake of earning a BA for higher salary). When they finish their training, they are ready to work if they can find a job, and I am sure their unions are going to make sure that the local cities and counties don't make it mandatory for them to have a degree in order to enter and perform their jobs either.
- They risk their lives
- Their job is physically demanding (Firefighters/paramedics often go 24 hours without sleep, etc).
Yes they risk their lives just like teachers sometimes risk our lives. You must be living on another planet to think that teachers are safe on their campuses. REMEMBER COLUMBINE IN COLORADO? I would love for you to go to a Compton or Watts High school and act like you don't have to worry about getting beat up or shot with incidences like those are far too common on those campuses, but because the media doesn't report those incidences on those campuses many people just over look what's going on on those campuses because it's not news worthy anymore.
I have had kids to threaten me, and colleagues telling us how they were going to get their gang banging big brother who would be waiting for us on the parking lot when it was time for us to go home.
[b]Now, I know teachers will love to equate dealing with that "problem kid" in their class to pulling dead bodies out of car crashes. But the reality is that police/firefighters have it much harder than teachers and their pay reflects that. [/B
Teacher may not pull out dead bodies out of cars. But again, THAT COMMENT JUST SHOWS YOUR TOTAL LACK OF RESPECT FOR WHAT TEACHERS FACE IN THEIR CLASSROOMS. Thus, if you really think that all we deal with is a problem kid, OVER PROBLEM KIDS, AND THEIR PARENTS WHO CAN BE SOMETIMES VERY COMBATIVE TOWARD US TO THE EXTENT THAT WE HAVE TO SOMETIMES CALL THE SCHOOL POLICE TO ESCORT THEM OFF OF OUR CAMPUSES FOR MAKING THREATS AS WELL AS CURSING US OUT, you better really think again my man.
We have kids who are beat up or shot at in our classrooms (High School Teachers mainly) who have to break up fights and risk getting beat up by kids who don't want that teacher doing his job to protect the child that they are trying to beat up. So, again you really don't know what you are talking about. We have kids who come to schools with all kinds of health problems---with hiv, hepatitis, herpes, all kept confidential but just WHAT IF ONE OF THOSE KIDS SPIT ON ME OR WORSE HAVE A NOSE BLEED, AND I CAN'T GET TO MY GLOVES IN TIME TO HELP STOP HIS NOSE BLEED FROM RUNNING and I have a paper cut and GOD forbids his hiv positive blood enters my blood stream, I AM AT RISK FOR ALL KINDS OF POSSIBLE INFECTIONS.
Teachers get paid relatively well because they have to get degrees etc, police/firefighters get paid relatively well because their job is physically demanding and risky.
Again depending on the grade level, a teacher's job can be just as physically demanding, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE TO RUN TO A FIGHT AND BREAK UP THE FIGHT BY PHYSICALLY REMOVING KIDS APART.
And that extra duty? You mean like when they are risking their lives protecting you from wild fires?
Geez, you think teaching in an inner city is bad...trying being a police/firefighter in one...[/quote]
Hummmm? I don't know if that was your way of throwing a low punch. But as I said, you are more than welcome to go to any Compton High School or Watt's high school, and tell me if you didn't feel like you were risking your life when the gangs start to fight and shoot at each other and racial fights break out on those campuses, and if you happen to be a white person, they are ready to target you because they are mad at you just because of your skin color.
[QUOTE=user_id;8719230]This is just so silly....and is rather telling. You think your degree is so important...god forbidden someone with out one makes more! Geez..
I never said that BOTH of my degrees are more important than anyone or anyone's job. You ASSumed that I was putting my degrees over policemen and firemen's salary. They are public servants just like I am, my job is just as stressfull and demanding as theirs, but under TOTALLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMUMSTANCES.
Firstly, police/firefighters/paramedics don't get paid dramatically more than teaches. But secondly lets review why they get a decent salary.
You seem to forget that policemen can start right out of high school after going to a police academy training, and that doesn't take 6 years to complete.
On the other hand, teachers have to at least earn a BA, then after earning a BA, the state of CA wants to get more money from us by making us train for another two years just to get a DUMB teaching credential as you have said in a previous post, so teachers are in college the equivalent of 6 years instead of four, and we haven't become permanent teachers yet. By a policeman's or fireman's 6th year, they are well into their careers.
You seem to forget too that firemen and policemen aren't in any student loan debt like many teachers (unless they did it just for the sake of earning a BA for higher salary). When they finish their training, they are ready to work if they can find a job, and I am sure their unions are going to make sure that the local cities and counties don't make it mandatory for them to have a degree in order to enter and perform their jobs either.
- They risk their lives
- Their job is physically demanding (Firefighters/paramedics often go 24 hours without sleep, etc).
Yes they risk their lives just like teachers sometimes risk our lives. You must be living on another planet to think that teachers are safe on their campuses. REMEMBER COLUMBINE IN COLORADO? I would love for you to go to a Compton or Watts High school and act like you don't have to worry about getting beat up or shot with incidences like those are far too common on those campuses, but because the media doesn't report those incidences on those campuses many people just over look what's going on on those campuses because it's not news worthy anymore.
I have had kids to threaten me, and colleagues telling us how they were going to get their gang banging big brother who would be waiting for us on the parking lot when it was time for us to go home.
[b]Now, I know teachers will love to equate dealing with that "problem kid" in their class to pulling dead bodies out of car crashes. But the reality is that police/firefighters have it much harder than teachers and their pay reflects that. [/B
Teacher may not pull out dead bodies out of cars. But again, THAT COMMENT JUST SHOWS YOUR TOTAL LACK OF RESPECT FOR WHAT TEACHERS FACE IN THEIR CLASSROOMS. Thus, if you really think that all we deal with is a problem kid, OVER PROBLEM KIDS, AND THEIR PARENTS WHO CAN BE SOMETIMES VERY COMBATIVE TOWARD US TO THE EXTENT THAT WE HAVE TO SOMETIMES CALL THE SCHOOL POLICE TO ESCORT THEM OFF OF OUR CAMPUSES FOR MAKING THREATS AS WELL AS CURSING US OUT, you better really think again my man.
We have kids who are beat up or shot at in our classrooms (High School Teachers mainly) who have to break up fights and risk getting beat up by kids who don't want that teacher doing his job to protect the child that they are trying to beat up. So, again you really don't know what you are talking about. We have kids who come to schools with all kinds of health problems---with hiv, hepatitis, herpes, all kept confidential but just WHAT IF ONE OF THOSE KIDS SPIT ON ME OR WORSE HAVE A NOSE BLEED, AND I CAN'T GET TO MY GLOVES IN TIME TO HELP STOP HIS NOSE BLEED FROM RUNNING and I have a paper cut and GOD forbids his hiv positive blood enters my blood stream, I AM AT RISK FOR ALL KINDS OF POSSIBLE INFECTIONS.
Teachers get paid relatively well because they have to get degrees etc, police/firefighters get paid relatively well because their job is physically demanding and risky.
Again depending on the grade level, a teacher's job can be just as physically demanding, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE TO RUN TO A FIGHT AND BREAK UP THE FIGHT BY PHYSICALLY REMOVING KIDS APART.
And that extra duty? You mean like when they are risking their lives protecting you from wild fires?
Geez, you think teaching in an inner city is bad...trying being a police/firefighter in one...
Hummmm? I don't know if that was your way of throwing a low punch. But as I said, you are more than welcome to go to any Compton High School or Watt's high school, and tell me if you didn't feel like you were risking your life when the gangs start to fight and shoot at each other and racial fights break out on those campuses, and if you happen to be a white person, they are ready to target you because they are mad at you just because of your skin color.[/quote]
So why would any self respecting person joyfully go into employment there. If not joyful and committed than why not another district or career. That's what folks in other fields do if their job isn't working out.
Hummmm? I don't know if that was your way of throwing a low punch. But as I said, you are more than welcome to go to any Compton High School or Watt's high school, and tell me if you didn't feel like you were risking your life when the gangs start to fight and shoot at each other and racial fights break out on those campuses, and if you happen to be a white person, they are ready to target you because they are mad at you just because of your skin color.
So why would any self respecting person joyfully go into employment there. If not joyful and committed than why not another district or career. That's what folks in other fields do if their job isn't working out.[/quote]
re teacher pay,
strange nation, whenever anybody gets a pay cut they cheer, no particular public outrage about under the table NAFTA for 30 years, no concern bout forced chinese labor for Walmart goods, and they absolutely hate unions.
So why would any self respecting person joyfully go into employment there. If not joyful and committed than why not another district or career. That's what folks in other fields do if their job isn't working out.
I GUESS IT IS BECAUSE THEY CARE[/quote]
OK so why do they complain about it so much and say they can't do the job? They need to talk about the challenges and how they are devising ways to overcome the difficulties. That will garner more respect.
OK so why do they complain about it so much and say they can't do the job? They need to talk about the challenges and how they are devising ways to overcome the difficulties. That will garner more respect.[/quote]
I think you misunderstood me. Let me clarify what I mean. These teachers are not complaining at all. I was just giving a perspective on WHAT TEACHERS HAVE TO DEAL WITH, SINCE A PREVIOUS POSTER said that a teachers job is like going to DISNEYLAND EVERY DAY. They don't have to even be inner city techers dealing with the dangers of being shot these days. Again, there are many news stories that have been reporting kids bringing guns to school and shooting kids in the burbs..................
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
