Little Idea: TN High Speed Rail (Memphis, Knoxville: income, income tax, safe)

[jabogitlu]

I agree. However I would like to see the Tri as a hub of sorts. Say from DC to the Tri, then a choice to either continue South to Atlanta or West to Nashville. Of course with a few stop options in between on each route.

I would too, but it would make much more sense for Charlotte to be that hub. A line from DC through Richmond to Charlotte, then spoking to Atlanta through Greenville or west to Knoxville and Nashville would win out.

[Vic_Vega]

Originally Posted by rccrain

With high speed rail, I estimate 490 miles at an average speed of 100MPH gets you there in 4.9 hours.

Keep on dreaming, cause none of you will ever see this actually happen in your lifetimes, not in Tennessee. The japanese Shinkansen bullet train averages about 125 mph at best, with a top speed of 186 mph. Now while Tennessee is a great state, and i have nothing against the Tri-Cities, there simply is no volume to justify an investment like this. The passenger trains in my country average about 70-80 mph on their best day, and they can run up to 140 mph. This might be something more realistic for Tennessee, yet it is still very expensive to build and maintain.

Do you have any idea how much it will cost to acquire the railroad right of way from a freight railroad, rebuild the rail line and double track it (too much waste of energy to stop these things on a passing track to meet other trains), acquire land and build new track to extend the curves (you can't have the tight curves of a 50mph freight railroad on a operation like this), eliminate all at-grade crossings, every single one of them (there is no way you can have motorists or pedestrians crossing paths with these kinds of tracks anywhere), re-routing the freight trains to another rail line (you can't have heavy, long, slow freight trains frequently sharing tracks with these kinds of trains), possibly rehabilitating or even building a new parallel route for the freight trains since it might not be possible to route them any other way, maintaining the track and other infrastructure (you would not believe if i told how much it costs per year to maintain just one mile of your average freight railroad track good for 40 mph), installing and maintaining all the necessary safety applications (with high-speed trains, there's so many things you need to make it absolutely 100% sure they will never collide at full speed, with freight trains we're usually talking about merchandise.. it's money, this is about living people), and the trainsets?

While i agree that Tennessee (and US in general) need better passenger rail service, you just have to remember that it can be very expensive to build and maintain, and not nearly always can it be made profitable. It has it's own advantages on shorter, 200-400 mile routes and commuter service. Any longer than that, and it's either too slow or too expensive.

[Beretta]

Vic ... I think that is why the idea was shelved here. We were smart enough to not actually do it. I remember that the state looked at this idea many years ago. I think that there will be some sort of electric speed rail in the future (most likely above the ground); but like you said, not in our lifetimes.

[marmac]

Originally Posted by Vic_Vega

Keep on dreaming, cause none of you will ever see this actually happen in your lifetimes, not in Tennessee. The japanese Shinkansen bullet train averages about 125 mph at best, with a top speed of 186 mph. Now while Tennessee is a great state, and i have nothing against the Tri-Cities, there simply is no volume to justify an investment like this. The passenger trains in my country average about 70-80 mph on their best day, and they can run up to 140 mph. This might be something more realistic for Tennessee, yet it is still very expensive to build and maintain.

Do you have any idea how much it will cost to acquire the railroad right of way from a freight railroad, rebuild the rail line and double track it (too much waste of energy to stop these things on a passing track to meet other trains), acquire land and build new track to extend the curves (you can't have the tight curves of a 50mph freight railroad on a operation like this), eliminate all at-grade crossings, every single one of them (there is no way you can have motorists or pedestrians crossing paths with these kinds of tracks anywhere), re-routing the freight trains to another rail line (you can't have heavy, long, slow freight trains frequently sharing tracks with these kinds of trains), possibly rehabilitating or even building a new parallel route for the freight trains since it might not be possible to route them any other way, maintaining the track and other infrastructure (you would not believe if i told how much it costs per year to maintain just one mile of your average freight railroad track good for 40 mph), installing and maintaining all the necessary safety applications (with high-speed trains, there's so many things you need to make it absolutely 100% sure they will never collide at full speed, with freight trains we're usually talking about merchandise.. it's money, this is about living people), and the trainsets?

While i agree that Tennessee (and US in general) need better passenger rail service, you just have to remember that it can be very expensive to build and maintain, and not nearly always can it be made profitable. It has it's own advantages on shorter, 200-400 mile routes and commuter service. Any longer than that, and it's either too slow or too expensive.

Vic, I agree.

After reading the thread, it is definitely a fantasy thread.
The suggestion by mbmouse that tri cities be the " hub" topped it all.

I believe the OP's intent was it to be a fantasy thread ( like " what if you won the lottery" )
In both cases, yes, it is possible------------but odds are it is highly unlikely it would ever happen.

[kendog228]

I vote for the high speed rail between Washington DC and Tri Cities - it would bring it much more revenue by having that connection for commuting and making the area accessible to economic development.

[JMT]

Thanks, Vic, for bringing us back to reality! And you are right, bringing high-speed rail to Tennessee will probably not happen in my lifetime. I still wish we could have regional rail that would parallel interstates particularly around Nashville.

I've been on the TGV in France several times as it swooshes along at 200+ mph and it is fabulous. And I was mesmerized as the TGV broke all records by going 357mph in its new Paris-Strasbourg line a couple of years ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdQ8CG2Up-g

BUT France has enormously high taxes, and the French government doesn't mind grabbing private property for the "public good." The US is simply too spread out to make passenger rail viable. Even in the Northeast the trains are rickety, heavily subsidized, fares are steep, and the schedules are grossly unreliable.

[Vic_Vega]

Originally Posted by marmac

The suggestion by mbmouse that tri cities be the " hub" topped it all.

Bristol is already a "hub" on the Norfolk Southern railroad, it's a crew change point. You have two choices when you arrive in there:

1.) Continue your journey straight ahead
or 2.) Turn and go right back from where you came from

:P

[rccrain]

Amtrak trains run at 79MPH, which is why there is little benefit to using them - some combination of arcane rules and need for equipment upgrades.

If it's done in Tennessee, it needs to be done right with the trains averaging 100MPH+ including time stopped.

[Vic_Vega]

Originally Posted by JMT

bringing high-speed rail to Tennessee will probably not happen in my lifetime. I still wish we could have regional rail that would parallel interstates particularly around Nashville.

I thought it was already being studied, or atleast planned? I atleast have read about it.. there is already Amtrak service between CHI and Indianapolis. From Indianapolis, a new route would branch off to Louisville, and then it would eventually be continued to Nashville. And this time, when running between Indianapolis and Louisville, Amtrak would actually rehab the L&I tracks so they could run faster than 30 mph.

[JMT]

Originally Posted by Vic_Vega

I thought it was already being studied, or atleast planned? I atleast have read about it.. there is already Amtrak service between CHI and Indianapolis. From Indianapolis, a new route would branch off to Louisville, and then it would eventually be continued to Nashville. And this time, when running between Indianapolis and Louisville, Amtrak would actually rehab the L&I tracks so they could run faster than 30 mph.

Well there's one line right now, from Lebanon to Nashville. Others are planned. They run pretty slowly. If they could run 70mph I'm sure they'd be more popular. Of course, another problem is that the trains go to downtown Nashville which doesn't have very good public transportation, so unless your final destination happens to be within a couple of blocks of the downtown train depot, there's no point in taking the trains.