Need to discuss bottom line housing costs -it is REALLY cheaper? (Dallas: sales, apartments)

[CptnRn]

Foreclosures may be up in Texas but the numbers are still far lower then all but a handful of other states.

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com

[ScoPro]

Don't forget - Texas has NO state income tax.

[scootiepie]

Well that is a consideration for sure, and a factor I'm considering. But it seems almost more straightforward and simple to pay income tax, than have a bunch of miscelleneous other taxes trying to
make up for not having a state income tax. At least that is what I'm finding. Do I want to be nickel and dimed to death, or just have a chunk taken out upfront? Another thing I'm finding is that, proportionally,
having a modest income of 50,000 I could very well pay less in taxes by paying an income tax, than paying taxes based on the value of property. At some point it evens out, but finding that point is the trick. My Texan family tells me (my whole family consists of lifelong multigenerational Texans) it is great not having the state income tax ... but without the basis of comparison not having lived in other states. But not sure I'm sold on that yet.

Just for information's sake, I'm in Virginia which tends to have some fiscal restraint so we don't have the
runaway tax issues like in the NE or CA.

[orbius]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Foreclosures may be up in Texas but the numbers are still far lower then all but a handful of other states.

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com

Foreclosures vary wildly across the state from urban to rural areas. I find Realty Trac provides a better way to track foreclosures county by county and city by city.
Texas has the largest rural population in the country which helps moderate statewide foreclosure statistics.

[CptnRn]

Housing costs are lower in TX then many other locations, but not all. See this map.

US Home Prices and USA Heat Map - Trulia Real Estate Search - Trulia.com

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Housing costs are lower in TX then many other locations, but not all. See this map.

US Home Prices and USA Heat Map - Trulia Real Estate Search - Trulia.com

"Average" prices are such a tricky thing to interpret. The average home price in Dallas is $150k, but it's fairly difficult to find a $150k home. The southern/western parts of the city are mostly filled with homes in the $60-100k range....but most people wouldn't choose to live there due to crime/ bad schools/ perception of crime & bad schools. On the northern & eastern sides, block after block for miles on end are filled with homes that well for $250k, $350k, $500k, $750k, $2M, etc. These are the areas most people would gravitate towards- clean, well-manicured, safe, good schools both public & private. It all averages out to $150k, but you really need a good chunk more than that to buy a nice (not huge, not brand new, just nice) home in the city.

I would take any "average" with a grain of salt- especially in a state with 20 million people or whatever we're up to now. There is a huge divide between "haves" and "have nots", rich and poor, educated and uneducated, employed and unemployed, that the "sides" are much further apart than an average would lead you to believe.

[CptnRn]

I cannot agree that it is " it's fairly difficult to find a $150k home" in Dallas, when well over 50% of the housing stock is valued at that amount or less. See the charts below. Same is true for almost every City except Austin.

Sure, the median house cost is just a relative indicator. You can get much more detailed information on the numbers of houses in each price range off in the City-Data demographics pages. http://www.city-data.com/city/Texas.html

Austin Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $214,300
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24317.png (broken link)

Corpus Christi Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $113,300
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24541.png (broken link)

Dallas Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $135,600
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24581.png (broken link)

El Paso Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $115,300
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24661.png (broken link)

Ft. Worth Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $121,700
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24713.png (broken link)

Houston Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $128,000
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/24854.png (broken link)

Midland Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $130,600
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/25126.png (broken link)

San Antonio Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $114,400
http://pics2.city-data.com/hval2008/25619.png (broken link)

[TurtleCreek80]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

I cannot agree that it is " it's fairly difficult to find a $150k home" in Dallas, when well over 50% of the housing stock is valued at that amount or less. See the charts below. Same is true for almost every City except Austin.

Dallas Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $135,600

1, you cannot look at combined values of condos & homes. Dallas is well-known for being a fairly terrible condo market. Values in many condo developments have been stagnant for 20-30 years- most buyers would agree that's not a wise place to park $100-200k.

2, median home value in Dallas in 2010 was right at $200k. That's about the MINIMUM it takes to live in a good part of the city of Dallas (not Collin County or other suburbs) that is safe, clean, and has good schools.

3, if you don't believe me, hop on the Dallas forum and tell them you want to live in the city of Dallas in a clean, safe neighborhood with good schools (pretty much the basic most people can agree on as "family essentials" when moving) on a $150k budget and see what direction the forum steers you. They are either going to send you to the far-out burbs (and not Plano far or Rockwalp far....like 30 miles out far) or tell you to find another $50k for your budget.

4, Dallas is by and large a poor city. Yes, North Dallas is wealthy but the vast majority of the city is poor. Nearly 70% of the students in Dallas ISD qualify for free lunch (family of 4 making under $28,000) or reduced cost lunch (family of 4 making under $40,000). Families making $30-40k don't live in $150k homes. They live in $40-75k homes IF they even own at all. Those families make up nearly 70% of the school system and probably a good 60% MINIMUM of the city of Dallas' population.

That is why, as I said in my first post that averages are deceiving. Most of the city's homes are in neighborhoods where average prices are under $100k but most "normal" families moving to Dallas wouldnt want to live in those neighborhoods due to crime, bad schools, or perception of crime based on a population that is 90%+ minority. Most "normal" families want to live in safe, clean neighborhoods with good schools and $150k homes in those sought-after neighborhood of northwest, north, east, and northeast Dallas are few and far between.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

1, you cannot look at combined values of condos & homes. Dallas is well-known for being a fairly terrible condo market. Values in many condo developments have been stagnant for 20-30 years- most buyers would agree that's not a wise place to park $100-200k.

Why not include condos in the mix? People live there, we are talking about housing, not just the "most desirable" housing. Also most buyers don't park $100-200k in a property, they take out a mortgage with a minimum down payment.

2, median home value in Dallas in 2010 was right at $200k. That's about the MINIMUM it takes to live in a good part of the city of Dallas (not Collin County or other suburbs) that is safe, clean, and has good schools.

Fact is, most of the people living in Dallas don't live in those areas. Sounds like you are saying $200k is the minimum it takes to live in an area you would be willing to live in. Not everyone has that luxury of choice.

3, if you don't believe me, hop on the Dallas forum and tell them you want to live in the city of Dallas in a clean, safe neighborhood with good schools (pretty much the basic most people can agree on as "family essentials" when moving) on a $150k budget and see what direction the forum steers you. They are either going to send you to the far-out burbs (and not Plano far or Rockwalp far....like 30 miles out far) or tell you to find another $50k for your budget.

I think we are talking about two different things. I'm saying housing is available in that price range, you are saying you would not be willing to live there. I might not either, but if that is all you can afford, one has to live somewhere.

4, Dallas is by and large a poor city. Yes, North Dallas is wealthy but the vast majority of the city is poor. Nearly 70% of the students in Dallas ISD qualify for free lunch (family of 4 making under $28,000) or reduced cost lunch (family of 4 making under $40,000). Families making $30-40k don't live in $150k homes. They live in $40-75k homes IF they even own at all. Those families make up nearly 70% of the school system and probably a good 60% MINIMUM of the city of Dallas' population.

Agreed Estimated median household income in 2009: $39,829, Percentage of residents living in poverty in 2009: 23.2%

That is why, as I said in my first post that averages are deceiving. Most of the city's homes are in neighborhoods where average prices are under $100k but most "normal" families moving to Dallas wouldnt want to live in those neighborhoods due to crime, bad schools, or perception of crime based on a population that is 90%+ minority. Most "normal" families want to live in safe, clean neighborhoods with good schools and $150k homes in those sought-after neighborhood of northwest, north, east, and northeast Dallas are few and far between.

Most "normal" families who are living in homes priced below $100k probably don't want to live there, but they have to live someplace. I'm bothered by the suggestion here that anyone who can't afford a $200k home isn't "normal". That is probably not what you mean, but...

You said housing was not available in that median range, yet the data shows that there are 59,004 owner-occupied houses valued at between $100k to $175k. That represents over 1/3rd of the housing available below $200k.

141,990 owner-occupied houses are valued below $200K
Only 76,413 are valued over $200K.

So 2/3rds of the owner-occupied housing in Dallas is valued below $200k.

Estimate of home value of owner-occupied houses in 2009 in Dallas, TX:
Less than $10,000: 1289
$10,000 to $14,999: 644
$15,000 to $19,999: 1231
$20,000 to $24,999: 1436
$25,000 to $29,999: 1698
$30,000 to $34,999: 2191
$35,000 to $39,999: 2491
$40,000 to $49,999: 6453
$50,000 to $59,999: 8869
$60,000 to $69,999: 10897
$70,000 to $79,999: 11432
$80,000 to $89,999: 12477
$90,000 to $99,999: 11933-----
$100,000 to $124,999: 26417
$125,000 to $149,999: 20911
$150,000 to $174,999: 11676
$175,000 to $199,999: 9945
$200,000 to $249,999: 17956----
$250,000 to $299,999: 14295
$300,000 to $399,999: 16388
$400,000 to $499,999: 9470
$500,000 to $749,999: 10290
$750,000 to $999,999: 3088
$1,000,000 or more: 4976

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/housing/hou...#ixzz1Apf6vX79

The point of all this is getting away from the original purpose of this thread, to which I will respond again, yes housing prices are lower in Texas than in many other places, and "mean" housing prices are a good way to compare housing markets relative to each other.

[CptnRn]

In Austin, which has a much higher Estimated median house or condo value in 2009, $214,300, then most of the cities above, you can easily find a decent 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with 2 car garage in a good safe neighborhood with great schools for less then $200K.