Texas suburbs. Your opinion? (Houston, Dallas: university, zip codes, to move)

[samwill89]

Not all suburbs are made equal. I noticed that you have many more options and a higher quality of life in places like The Woodlands or Cinco Ranch than in Cypress or Manor (near Austin). As far as Houston suburbs go, very few are "white", but they are more religious and generic.

[stan4]

I don't live in a suburb to live in a suburb. I live here because this is where in Texas I want to live. The city I live in is actually almost 300,000 in population (Plano) - but I can get to downtown Dallas in less than 20 minutes. I don't work in Dallas (almost no one I know does) - Dallas is just somewhere I go sometimes if there is something I want or need there (which is honestly probably around a dozen times a year - usually for fun with other people who want to go down there). Everything I need (including the good shopping and plenty of good restaurants) is pretty much right here.

I don't like cities because they are crowded, smelly (yes, there is a distinct city smell - not so much in downtown Dallas, but NYC, Boston, etc), poor bang for the buck, bad roads, bad parking, the nice areas are too close to not-so-nice areas (even in Dallas with the good zoning), bad traffic...and what the heck is the point of putting up with all that when I can get to all the good downtown things in 20 minutes most times of the day (obviously not during peak traffic time)?

Concert or game at the AA Center? Door to parking garage in 20 minutes. Football game? Well, hell, that ain't in Dallas anyway. Airport? Neither's that (unless I'm going to Love Field - again, 15 minutes). Dinner at Abacus or Bob's? 20 minutes.

Dear neighbor, I like you, we're friends, we break bread together, we visit at each other's houses...but frankly, I don't want to see you or hear you or even know you're there unless I feel like it. That's not likely to happen in a city.

[tstone]

Originally Posted by samwill89

As far as Houston suburbs go, very few are "white"....

Agreed. I actually posted this the other day that shows, according to C-D, the desirable parts of inner Houston are ''whiter'' than almost every popular suburb in the entire metro:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20031400-post28.html

However there isn't a whole lot of discussion about it because it blows out the stereotype some ''enlightened'' folks love to repeat. The gentrification project was successful, and according to the forum it apparently continues on. I would imagine DFW is fairly similar and if not, it will be in 10 years.

[Brewzerr68]

Originally Posted by tstone

Agreed. I actually posted this the other day that shows, according to C-D, the desirable parts of inner Houston are ''whiter'' than almost every popular suburb in the entire metro:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/20031400-post28.html

However there isn't a whole lot of discussion about it because it blows out the stereotype some ''enlightened'' folks love to repeat. The gentrification project was successful, and according to the forum it apparently continues on. I would imagine DFW is fairly similar and if not, it will be in 10 years.

And see, this is why I started the thread. I grew up in the Montrose from 1972 to 1986, long before any gentrification took place. No affluent young white professionals wanted to have anything to do with the inner loop back then. It scared 'em to death, or at least freaked them out enough to stay away. It was dirty, somewhat dangerous, authentically "weird", very affordable, and definitely NOT the 2011 version of "hip". Whenever I make my annual visit to Houston that whole inner-loop part of town (Montrose, Heights, West End, Midtown, Binz) seems like a whole different world to me than the one I grew up in. Every single house on my old block has been bulldozed and replaced with gaudy McMansions.

I'm just curious as to what the advantages and disadvantages of suburban living versus inner-city living are these days, since the rules have changed. Someone earlier who goes by the name "Trollo" oddly enough tried to make this look like a troll thread, which it definitely isn't. Let's be clear on that.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by jr1038

With few exceptions the Texas suburbs are all slightly different shades of the same thing, i.e., highly conservative and religious - particularly, of all places, in far north-central Dallas (Plano, Frisco, Allen, McKinney, etc.). I'm not sure who you're trying to fool by saying Austin's burbs are any worse than the rest in this regard...

It is because eepstein hates Austin.

I think the "religious-ness" of most Texas suburbs is exaggerated. Yes there are many big churches in some of these areas, but it is easy to live a non-religious life in these areas.

I agree most are conservative, but that doesn't mean someone can't be a liberal in the suburbs (I know plenty).

For the OP - I think there are two key factors that cause many people to choose suburbs - affordability and schools. With just a few exceptions, most of Texas' large cities' central area school districts are at best mediocre and often poor. Living in central Austin is expensive. Easily $400K and up for a reasonable size home or a condo tower. That same amount of money buys a nice home in very good slightly suburban neighborhoods with good schools.

[John26]

In theory if you live in the city you have more stuff to do, you have the benefit of having to travel less to get somewhere to do stuff. Downside is lots of people and less space.

If you live in the country you have little to do and you have to travel a deal to get somewhere, the benefit is lots of space and less people to deal with.

IMO the suburbs are the worst of both, not much to do, you still have to travel a while to get into the city to do stuff, there are still alot of people and you dont have alot of space.

I'd rather live in the city or the country than in the suburbs.

[Brewzerr68]

Originally Posted by John26

IMO the suburbs are the worst of both, not much to do, you still have to travel a while to get into the city to do stuff, there are still alot of people and you dont have alot of space.

I'd rather live in the city or the country than in the suburbs.

I pretty much agree with this 100%. I'm inner-city raised, but these days living in the city has either become a privelege of wealth, or you have to settle for living in decaying, crime-ridden squalor.

I'm at a point in my life where I'm almost ready to move out to the mountains. Here in Northeastern WA there is still a lot of affordable open land, and the area is absolutely beautiful! The soil is very arable and allows one to easily be self-sustaining if they learn how to grow and harvest their own crops, and raise and slaughter their own livestock. I would much rather do the hard work involved in living that way than settling for living in the suburbs. No offense to those of you who enjoy living in the 'burbs, but it's just not for me. Feels too much like limbo.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by John26

In theory if you live in the city you have more stuff to do, you have the benefit of having to travel less to get somewhere to do stuff. Downside is lots of people and less space.

If you live in the country you have little to do and you have to travel a deal to get somewhere, the benefit is lots of space and less people to deal with.

IMO the suburbs are the worst of both, not much to do, you still have to travel a while to get into the city to do stuff, there are still alot of people and you dont have alot of space.

I'd rather live in the city or the country than in the suburbs.

That's mostly true...unless you live in the areas directly accessible to the city. Which tend to be very expensive, too...but you do get more land.

Travel less is relative, especially since it doesn't always translate into less travel time. For example, though I lived in this 'suburb' when I went to med school and most of my classmates lived in apartments near the med school, our door to parking lot times were within 5 minutes of each other? Why? They had to trot down from their apartment to the parking garage, they had to navigate small, traffic-ridden back streets with lots of lights, and I hopped straight into my car and down the tollway and exited.

It's a best of both worlds scenerio.

[tstone]

Originally Posted by John26

IMO the suburbs are the worst of both, not much to do, you still have to travel a while to get into the city to do stuff, there are still alot of people and you dont have alot of space.

I respect your opinion but that's a pretty negative attitude. You could turn it around and say it gives the best of both if you wanted, just depends on your perception.

Honestly if you really do think this way, the Texas inner cities aren't for you. In reality they aren't much more than compressed suburbs with a skyline in the background, but with a young & trendy white crowd basking in the established, old-money radiance. It is still car-centric... Tacky strip malls?--yes. Public transportation-- weak to none; traffic volume is the heaviest, and congestion is almost as bad as poorly planned exurbs.

The fully developed suburbs are essentially self-contained, traffic problems are still present but not as bad, have 90% of the city shopping & dining options & amenities you need from day to day, and things to do-- that depends on what you're in to. I understand a lot of that seems invisible if you are single and 25, because most of those areas do not cater to that demographic.

I'm speaking as someone who has both lived and worked in developed suburbs (towns & Houston proper) as well as inside 610. ''Inner city Texas'' just does not appeal to me. More power to you if you love it. --Now if I had the opportunity to live comfortably for 1-2 years in SF or NYC, I might just hop all over that. (You can have country living, where people go to die.)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by stan4

I don't live in a suburb to live in a suburb. I live here because this is where in Texas I want to live. The city I live in is actually almost 300,000 in population (Plano) - but I can get to downtown Dallas in less than 20 minutes. I don't work in Dallas (almost no one I know does) - Dallas is just somewhere I go sometimes if there is something I want or need there (which is honestly probably around a dozen times a year - usually for fun with other people who want to go down there). Everything I need (including the good shopping and plenty of good restaurants) is pretty much right here.

I don't like cities because they are crowded,

that doesn't make sense, Plano along with Arlington and Garland are more dense than Dallas or Fort Worth.


Arlington- 3,871.8/sq mi in 2010
Plano - 3,820.2/sq mi in 2010
Garland- 3,778/sq mi in 2010
Dallas- 3,697.44/sq mi in 2010

Richardson- 3,649.1/sq mi in 2009
Allen- 3,219.5/sq mi in 2010
Mesquite- 3,216/sq m in 2010
Irving- 3,194.8/sq mi in 2010
Carrollton 3,004.6/sq mi in 2010
Fort Worth- 2,403.7/sq in 2010


those burbs are taking over the metroplex