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I was recently at a large meeting of an organization in the Houston area where a high-level TxDOT official was the featured speaker. One of the topics of interest to the audience that the speaker addressed was the significant increase in casualties on TxDOT-administered roads (mainly U.S. Interstates and highways, TX highways, and FM/RR roads).
The speaker noted that blaming the driving public (who are taxpayers and voters) for problems can bring blowback to the agency, but then went ahead and pretty much blamed the driving public, focusing on three causes of the trend: (1) DUI, (2) excessive speeding above the posted limit, and (3) distracted driving, mainly texting.
Cause (1) has pretty much been culturally unacceptable since probably the early 1990s, though that represented a pretty big cultural change in Texas (or at least Houston). However, that's not necessarily the case with the other two causes. Many drivers strongly feel that they can responsibly speed well above the posted limit and many feel that they are competent at texting (or doing other phone things) and driving as well.
I personally agreed with the speaker's comments and their assertion that causes (2) and (3) need to evolve to be generally considered culturally unacceptable behavior. Full disclosure: I try pretty hard to not go more than 5 mph over the posted limit, and I never text while the car is in motion, so the speaker's comments weren't going to rile me up.
However, I may very well be in the minority on this. So I'm curious, how do y'all feel about the speaker's opinion, given that he/she is a high-level TxDOT official? Is this an OK opinion for them to have, since they have authority to regulate our behavior through laws and law enforcement, and as recipient of the tax revenue that we generate?
EDIT: I just noticed a typo in the thread title, it should obviously say "comments."
I agree I also know that those most guilty of these activities will object to his comments. And that those who just KNOW that they are good enough drivers that the speed limit does not apply to them in reality are deluding themselves and that truly excellent drivers (like the professional race car drivers I hung out with when learning to drive) drive very conservatively on the road because the most important criteria for an excellent driver is situational awareness, and on the public roads that means knowing you are sharing them with drivers of vastly varying skill and experience levels driving vehicles of vastly different capabilities and condition, and the only right thing to do is to drive conservatively. Anyone who does not have, or refuses to live by, that situational awareness is the very opposite of a good driver.
And, yes, it is entirely OK for those agencies charged with our safety to hold such opinions and to enforce speed limit and anti-texting while driving as well as other traffic laws. That is, in fact, their job and what we pay them to do.
I agree I also know that those most guilty of these activities will object to his comments. And that those who just KNOW that they are good enough drivers that the speed limit does not apply to them in reality are deluding themselves and that truly excellent drivers (like the professional race car drivers I hung out with when learning to drive) drive very conservatively on the road because the most important criteria for an excellent driver is situational awareness, and on the public roads that means knowing you are sharing them with drivers of vastly varying skill and experience levels driving vehicles of vastly different capabilities and condition, and the only right thing to do is to drive conservatively. Anyone who does not have, or refuses to live by, that situational awareness is the very opposite of a good driver.
And, yes, it is entirely OK for those agencies charged with our safety to hold such opinions and to enforce speed limit and anti-texting while driving as well as other traffic laws. That is, in fact, their job and what we pay them to do.
Waiting for the squeals to start.
Well much of what you posted was already touched on earlier, such as the differences in speeding (weaving through traffic vs straight line-spaced out speeding) but I think the thing with speed limits is they often change based on several factors.
For example in the early 2010s, TxDot surveyed all DFW freeways and raised most that were 60 or 65 to 70. Very few freeways did not get raised as most at least increased by 5MPH. Tarrant County was notorious for having arbitrary low speed limits so it saw a few jump by 10 MPH. Why did TxDot raise the limits? Well their survey showed how fast most drove and based on freeway design, the higher speed limits were deemed to be safer. That right there tells me these speed limits are set low in the first place and not for safety, but rather for speed traps. On I-20 in Fort Worth folks would drive 75 when the speed limit was 60 and guess how fast they drive now? Still going 75, but the difference is a ticket is only 5 over now versus 15 over years ago. Nothing changed on the freeway except more vehicles and development thanks to growth. Cops used to always be along this road when it was 60 but now they are hardly ever there at 70MPH.
I remember when the speed limit on 45 between Houston and DFW was 70 during the day and 65 at night. Now it's 75 at all times. Not much is different on 45 between these two cities when the change was made. It's only now over 10 years later that the freeway is being upgraded/widened in segments. People went 90+ when it was a 65-70 limit and still go 90+ now. On the flip side, people drove 75-80 then and still just drive 75-80 now. Only difference is you won't get a ticket going 75-80 now like you would a decade ago.
If speed limits were set at a reasonable level then you wouldn't see as many speeders. Houston area speed limits should go back to where they were pre-2000 because right now the city is like a giant speed trap. With the increase in safety features in cars, better freeway/road design, GPS, etc., I think it's time for TxDot to do the same DFW study in Houston.
Well much of what you posted was already touched on earlier, such as the differences in speeding (weaving through traffic vs straight line-spaced out speeding) but I think the thing with speed limits is they often change based on several factors.
For example in the early 2010s, TxDot surveyed all DFW freeways and raised most that were 60 or 65 to 70. Very few freeways did not get raised as most at least increased by 5MPH. Tarrant County was notorious for having arbitrary low speed limits so it saw a few jump by 10 MPH. Why did TxDot raise the limits? Well their survey showed how fast most drove and based on freeway design, the higher speed limits were deemed to be safer. That right there tells me these speed limits are set low in the first place and not for safety, but rather for speed traps. On I-20 in Fort Worth folks would drive 75 when the speed limit was 60 and guess how fast they drive now? Still going 75, but the difference is a ticket is only 5 over now versus 15 over years ago. Nothing changed on the freeway except more vehicles and development thanks to growth. Cops used to always be along this road when it was 60 but now they are hardly ever there at 70MPH.
I remember when the speed limit on 45 between Houston and DFW was 70 during the day and 65 at night. Now it's 75 at all times. Not much is different on 45 between these two cities when the change was made. It's only now over 10 years later that the freeway is being upgraded/widened in segments. People went 90+ when it was a 65-70 limit and still go 90+ now. On the flip side, people drove 75-80 then and still just drive 75-80 now. Only difference is you won't get a ticket going 75-80 now like you would a decade ago.
If speed limits were set at a reasonable level then you wouldn't see as many speeders. Houston area speed limits should go back to where they were pre-2000 because right now the city is like a giant speed trap. With the increase in safety features in cars, better freeway/road design, GPS, etc., I think it's time for TxDot to do the same DFW study in Houston.
So you feel you have sufficient evidence to declare existing speed limits arbitrary and essentially meaningless, and therefore TxDOT being unjustified in enforcing them. Okay....
Nevermind the highly documented statistics that the faster the speed, the higher probability of severe injury or fatality in crashes.
Also, you need to show some evidence that slower speeds are MORE dangerous. So when I drive 65, I'm driving dangerously compared to someone doing 80? Really?
Sounds to me that you're just trying to adjust public policy to your personal driving preferences, which are that most freeways should be adjusted to limits of 80+, and that drivers who don't want to go that fast shouldn't use the facilities at all.
So you feel you have sufficient evidence to declare existing speed limits arbitrary and essentially meaningless, and therefore TxDOT being unjustified in enforcing them. Okay....
Nevermind the highly documented statistics that the faster the speed, the higher probability of severe injury or fatality in crashes.
Also, you need to show some evidence that slower speeds are MORE dangerous. So when I drive 65, I'm driving dangerously compared to someone doing 80? Really?
Sounds to me that you're just trying to adjust public policy to your personal driving preferences, which are that most freeways should be adjusted to limits of 80+, and that drivers who don't want to go that fast shouldn't use the facilities at all.
Well.. ...to be fair technically the way the law is written Texas speed limits are not a firm indicator that a crime has been committed.. ..Texas Speed Limits are “Prima facie” meaning sufficient proof unless disproven.. ..If it can be proven that the general flow of traffic was exceeding the posted limit by a sufficient amount and you were endangering yourself by driving the posted speed limit, you may stand a chance in court.. ..I wouldn't necessarily condone it.. ..but the law does say that.
So you feel you have sufficient evidence to declare existing speed limits arbitrary and essentially meaningless, and therefore TxDOT being unjustified in enforcing them. Okay....
Quite the conclusion you jumped to there...
What I said was TxDot's actions just this past decade have shown speed limits can be changed based on several factors with one of those being the average speed of drivers. They increased speed limits on freeways even with an increase in vehicular traffic.
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Nevermind the highly documented statistics that the faster the speed, the higher probability of severe injury or fatality in crashes.
Of course but there's been similar studies on drivers who impede the flow of traffic and the congestion this causes behind them. Speeding recklessly is a problem and I don't believe anyone has advocated for that. Since the TxDot rep didn't give good examples on what he meant by speeding, he could have also meant going 5 over, which some people deem is reasonable (such as yourself) whereas others might say that is still speeding.
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Also, you need to show some evidence that slower speeds are MORE dangerous. So when I drive 65, I'm driving dangerously compared to someone doing 80? Really?
Where did I say this? Please show me.
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Sounds to me that you're just trying to adjust public policy to your personal driving preferences, which are that most freeways should be adjusted to limits of 80+, and that drivers who don't want to go that fast shouldn't use the facilities at all.
The only thing I did was give you examples of speed limits being raises with no improvements done to the road. And how before the speed limit increase someone going 80 could potentially be going 15 over depending on time of day, whearas nowadays that's only 5 over no matter the time of day.
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Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
Well.. ...to be fair technically the way the law is written Texas speed limits are not a firm indicator that a crime has been committed.. ..Texas Speed Limits are “Prima facie” meaning sufficient proof unless disproven.. ..If it can be proven that the general flow of traffic was exceeding the posted limit by a sufficient amount and you were endangering yourself by driving the posted speed limit, you may stand a chance in court.. ..I wouldn't necessarily condone it.. ..but the law does say that.
I've tried to convey this message before, even linking to several states' laws which show this to be the case, but still people don't care and would rather play cop.
"Well their survey showed how fast most drove and based on freeway design, the higher speed limits were deemed to be safer."
So people who chose to honor the speed limit, meaning they were driving slower, are being blamed as the reason the road was less safe. The ones driving with total disregard to the limit are being cast as the ones driving properly, in your version of this finding.
You have consistently said in various posts that drivers should defer to those who choose to drive the fastest, including (and maybe especially) when such drivers are collectively well in excess of the posted limit. That the drivers who choose to stay at or near the limit are the ones causing the safety problem. That is completely the wrong way to put it - a twisted and morally / logically unacceptable way to put it.
It's not uncommon that even in the rightmost lane, a significant portion of drivers will drive well above the posted limit. If someone chooses to get on the highway and drive the limit in the rightmost lane in such a situation, by your logic, they are causing the safety issue. That is bunk, period. The ones choose to well exceed the posted limit are the ones causing the problem. The posted limit is also not the problem, even if it seems low to you.
Also, you need to show some evidence that slower speeds are MORE dangerous. So when I drive 65, I'm driving dangerously compared to someone doing 80? Really?
Nice try,
Driving fast is only dangerous when the road is not designed to drive fast on it.
Any study about how dangerous it is to drive fast is incompletely if it doesn’t take in consideration the design of the highway, bridge, entrance ramp, exit ramp, etc.
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