Old Town (Toledo, Franklin, Monroe: low income, for sale, apartments)

[Dwatted Wabbit]

What do people know about the Old West End, aka Old Town, in Toledo?
Some classics there. What's the neighborhood like?
Thanks, dwatt it!

[ryansmith]

The Old West End is on the West side of Collingwood and Old Town is on the East side of Collingwood. Often times people use the therm 'Old West End' to help sell things that aren't really in the Old West End. The Old West End is full of architecturally unique mansion-esque houses and an eclectic, friendly, and diverse community. Old Town is a little more transitional and has fewer remarkable houses. Both have some level of historic protection. Both neighborhoods are sandwiched between blighted areas. Both neighborhoods developed a bad reputation during the 70s and 80s because of white flight, red lining, disinvestment, etc, but have seen a huge renaissance and as I have said on here before, it is the worst kept secret that the Old West End is one of my favorite neighborhoods in the World.

[PreservationPioneer]

What about the Vistula Historic District? Any comments or concerns about that neighborhood?

[ryansmith]

I think that Vistula has a lot of potential... I love all of the Italianate architecture, BUT... it has a reputation for urban decay and blight. I look for a lot of interest in that area in years to come, but I expect people will comment on safety and blight issues.

[humtdumt]

thinking of investing in west end, old town area in a couple of 4 unit apts and what are the problems in the neighborhood and who would be in my tenet pool of renters humtdumt

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by humtdumt

thinking of investing in west end, old town area in a couple of 4 unit apts and what are the problems in the neighborhood and who would be in my tenet pool of renters humtdumt

There's definitely a distinction between the two neighborhoods even though they are adjacent to each other. Old Town is more blighted and more crime. That's not to say revitalization won't spread over to that side of Collingwood but that's not going to happen in the very near future. Could be a smart investment for the future if you really fixed a place up but right now, your tenets over there are just going to be low income folks, and you know the unfortunate problems that come with living in poverty.

The Old West End on the other hand is more of a mixed bag. The core of the neighborhood, Collingwood, Parkwood, Scottwood, Robinwood, and Glenwood are all mostly beautiful stately historic homes that are well kept. These streets are nicer the further south you go toward Monroe St and the Art Museum. Once you get close to Central to the north or Detroit to the west, its drastically poorer and blighted. Many of the homes in the historic core though are split up into apartments though and depending on how nice the units are, can rent for several hundred dollars easily. Tenets looking to rent there will have more money and probably include students, artists, some professionals, and maybe some empty nesters. There's definitely demand for nice places in the Old West End though

[residinghere2007]

I agree with above, Old Towne and OWE are 2 different neighborhoods. That said, I am also looking into investing in Old Towne in particular.

Housing is cheaper and there are a lot of investment opportunities for multi-family properties.

That said, I would try to stay closer to Collingwood in Old Town or to Cherry/Franklin on the other side. Most of the interior of the neighborhood seems sparsely populated and kind of dilapidated. But it would be a beautiful neighborhood with some investment and populated with owners or tenants who are decent, stable residents.

In the Old Town neighborhood in particular, your target renters would be mostly low income. IMO, low income renters are not all that bad, most of my renters are, but you just have to make sure to be choosy with who you rent to in regards to rental history especially.

In OWE your pool of renters will open up more dramatically to include many students and professionals. OWE draws a higher rent than Old Town. So if you do go with Old Town be sure to look at multi-family. I am looking for a minimum of a 4 unit building there that is already set up as a 4 unit or above.

Also, I know that the Lucas County landbank had an 8 unit building on Fulton St. in Old Town up for sale for super cheap - under $5K. But it needed A LOT of work and I don't have the funds to invest in it to get it up to my personal standards. I wouldn't expect good tenants to live in a building that I won't live in myself so cheap renovations at places that need major upgrades is just not something I do. But they do offer some matching funds for many of their properties and you can get loans via programs endorsed by the city through the neighborhoods department to assist in renovations. If you are interested in Old Town.

The Landbank also has some OWE properties. They have on on Collingwood right now that a friend of mine is considering purchasing. There is also an apartment they had listed last time I checked on Parkwood.

[UTRocket011]

Originally Posted by ryansmith

I think that Vistula has a lot of potential... I love all of the Italianate architecture, BUT... it has a reputation for urban decay and blight. I look for a lot of interest in that area in years to come, but I expect people will comment on safety and blight issues.

The Vistula neighborhood was one of the first settled around and before the time that the city was founded, circa 1830s plus. There are many old, historic structures here but it is primarily inhabited by low income residents and is also one of the cities high crime areas. Vistula is the near north end and much of the north end is blighted and rampant with crime. There are many small, local restaurants to check out, though, so it's not to be avoided 100%; you just want to be super cautious, especially if you're considering residing there. I probably wouldn't recommend investing there, especially for appreciation, unless renting to low income is your strategy. In the historic portion of the Old West End (west of Collingwood, however) it is quite likely that property values will rise given increased interest in the neighborhood in recent years. Old Town is still a historic area but, as previously stated, is definitely transitional. One issue you won't have to deal with there, though, is having to obtain permission from the local historic commission for every exterior renovation you want to do.

[acealive1]

if toledo ever got their act together and fixed that part of town like fort wayne,indiana did with their historic side, they'd be one of the safer cities in america