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Of course the province of Ontario itself stretches across all of the Great Lakes (save Michigan), stretching from Ontario to Superior and from New York State to Minnesota.
So it certainly has "Great Lakes" characteristics: a major cosmopolitan city, quaint 19th century towns, major industrial centers, lakefront cottages/cabins, etc.
Of course the province of Ontario itself stretches across all of the Great Lakes (save Michigan), stretching from Ontario to Superior and from New York State to Minnesota.
So it certainly has "Great Lakes" characteristics: a major cosmopolitan city, quaint 19th century towns, major industrial centers, lakefront cottages/cabins, etc.
Interestingly enough, I came across this per our discussion. These links show defined clusters of different regions in US/Canada. So either Toronto is lumped with the midwest in a huge region called the Great Lakes Region or it resides an odd region called Tor-Buff-Chester (oddly enough...Richard Florida, a famous researcher who works at UfT coined this one). But obviously, the BosNYCWash corridor on the East Coast is something entirely different.
I'm surprised you think Toronto is more urban than Chicago. I live in Toronto and have visited Chicago, and Chicago definitely felt more urban. It's basically urban all the way from the Loop to Evanston.
I'm surprised you think Toronto is more urban than Chicago. I live in Toronto and have visited Chicago, and Chicago definitely felt more urban. It's basically urban all the way from the Loop to Evanston.
Toronto gets suburban pretty fast.
There is no way Toronto is more urban than Chicago. Chicago feels like a much larger city.
And I totally agree with you that Toronto gets suburban pretty fast. The city is very suburban north of Yorkville, east of Sherbourne and west of Bathurst. Toronto is very very suburban in nature as a city with 2.6M.
So North York Centre is suburban? Mississauga City Centre is suburban? How much high rise development and density do you need to consider an area "urban"?
Some people have a very bizarre notion as to what constitutes "suburban". Just North of Yorkville is suburban? Just East of Sherbourne? Pure malarky. Toronto is "urban" well past high park to the West (all the way to Port Credit if you stay along the lakeshore), to Victoria Park Ave to the East and at least to Lawrence Ave to the North. About half of the city's 2.6 million people live in old, pre-war urban areas.
The post war developed areas in the remainder of the city are still dense enough to qualify as "urban" in every sense of the word, they're just somewhat more car dependant in nature than the older areas. Once you get farther out beyond the city boundary into the 905 area, while still quite dense, these areas are obviously very car dependant and suburban.
There is no way Toronto is more urban than Chicago. Chicago feels like a much larger city.
And I totally agree with you that Toronto gets suburban pretty fast. The city is very suburban north of Yorkville, east of Sherbourne and west of Bathurst. Toronto is very very suburban in nature as a city with 2.6M.
If Little Italy, Trinity Bellwoods, Parkdale, Regent Park, etc. are "suburban" then the term has no meaning whatsoever.
Unless your definition of "suburban" means "not downtown" of which I would agree.
I think it may be better to see the city through a sort of concentric ring model, rather than the approach of saying anything that's not right downtown is "suburban." It's a question of degree.
It's absurd to argue that 19th century rowhouse neighborhoods are "suburban." Or pretty much any neighborhood that was built up before 1910.
I guess we could call the 1910-1930 outer-city "streetcar suburbs" like St. Clair West, the Beaches, the Danforth, North Toronto, etc. semi-suburban. I agree they have a bit of a different "feel" and are a bit more removed. But at this point it's hard to argue they have more in common with the car-centric postwar suburbs than they do with inner city communities.
So North York Centre is suburban? Mississauga City Centre is suburban? How much high rise development and density do you need to consider an area "urban"?
they are pretty typical centers of the suburbs. Even Barrie has a couple of busy streets/plazas. Doesn't mean it is all that urban.
Urbanity doesn't just mean highrises. It is more defined by the availability of urban amenities. For example, CityPlace is no more urban than say Cabbagetown. Just because you replaced low rise houses with tall buildings doesn't make it urban.
Paris can be all 4-6 story houses but still beat Toronto in terms of urbanity with no question. Why? It has vibrant cafes, small restaurants, stores, bakeries, bookstores in every corner of the city, and on many streets, not just a few grand boulevards.
What is a suburb? You have one or two busy commercial streets, or a large busy intersection, or a large mall, and the rest of the area is almost all residential with hardly any business on the side streets. North York Center is all about the stretch on Yonge st between Sheppard and Finch, and all the other streets are dead quiet and represent nothing but suburbanity. Mississauga City Centre is a typical commercial center of a big suburb.
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