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I have some friends that lived in montreal and they said it is only good as a Study city. They said the character is still more similar to Europe, however Canada is far too young for that character to even be considered as real historic character, it can almost seem a bit fake.
Also since all of the headquarters from Montreal have been moving to Toronto Vancouver and possibly Calgary, they must not have as much booming or life as Toronto, that has a wopping 160 towers being consteucted at once at all times for the last 10 years.
Thats what I always about when living in Canada we lived in the suburbs, most depressing 19 years of my life. However from now on I will always want to live downtown in the heart of everything because it gives me more life and I feel more free. I'm sure once I have children this will alter, but for now I need to live in the center of it all.
funny you said that, because almost all parents still think they should absolutely live in suburban homes when they start to have families, without understanding suburban life is excruciating boring for children over the age of 10. They think the suburbs are beautiful, safe and good for the kids. I don't know if they really love it, or it is just peer pressure.
But paradoxically, you said you might do the same once you have children, why, to give them the same boring 19 years?
Yes, if you do decide to live in Toronto, by all means live in downtown, preferably south of College/Calton street and between Jarvis and Spadina ave (the official definition of downtown is twice as large but that's Canadian standard).
Toronto is a good city to live, all being said. It is safe, relatively nice and vibrant. But you should really adjust your expectation about achitecture, grandeur and urbanity. It is not on the same scale of West Europe. A Spanish or Italian city of 300,000 people can easily beat a North American city of 2 million residents and I am by no means exaggerating things.
Maybe you should consider Boston if you can. It is a rather sprawling city as well with all the ugly and endless suburbs, but central Boston is very nice and has the elegance you might like.
funny you said that, because almost all parents still think they should absolutely live in suburban homes when they start to have families, without understanding suburban life is excruciating boring for children over the age of 10. They think the suburbs are beautiful, safe and good for the kids. I don't know if they really love it, or it is just peer pressure.
But paradoxically, you said you might do the same once you have children, why, to give them the same boring 19 years?
Yes, if you do decide to live in Toronto, by all means live in downtown, preferably south of College/Calton street and between Jarvis and Spadina ave (the official definition of downtown is twice as large but that's Canadian standard).
Toronto is a good city to live, all being said. It is safe, relatively nice and vibrant. But you should really adjust your expectation about achitecture, grandeur and urbanity. It is not on the same scale of West Europe. A Spanish or Italian city of 300,000 people can easily beat a North American city of 2 million residents and I am by no means exaggerating things.
Maybe you should consider Boston if you can. It is a rather sprawling city as well with all the ugly and endless suburbs, but central Boston is very nice and has the elegance you might like.
Totally agree. Trust me it's a nightmare for me to think that one day I would want a house in the suburbs. I don't plan on it ever, but it seems eventually a lot of people change their mind after building a family, thy want more quiet. I guess we will see.
I have also considered Boston, but what do you think about Seattle in that case? At least there isn't really snow, and more of a coastal city. I don't really know anything about Boston, I do know that they have a lot of characteristic streets though. How about for progressive design?
Totally agree. Trust me it's a nightmare for me to think that one day I would want a house in the suburbs. I don't plan on it ever, but it seems eventually a lot of people change their mind after building a family, thy want more quiet. I guess we will see.
I have also considered Boston, but what do you think about Seattle in that case? At least there isn't really snow, and more of a coastal city. I don't really know anything about Boston, I do know that they have a lot of characteristic streets though. How about for progressive design?
Seattle is a nice city, with agood job market and high salary, and lower cost of living compared with NYC/Boston etc, but based on my understand of your preference, it possesses no old city charm. It has a small downtown, rather sterile in my point of view. You won't think about culture or grandeur when you are on Seattle. People love it for the nature, not achitecture or urbanity.
It has a mild climate, but not a good one. Probably more in line with Bretagne France. Grey and rainy winter which last 5 months of the year. Not bitterly cold but not pleasant either.
Yes, unfortunately all charming cities in North America have horrible weather: Boston, Montreal and to some extent NYC. Forget west coast. Even the post card city San Francisco is pretty ugly an typical North American taste in my opinion.
regarding CHicago: Chicago has some nice areas, but the city is extremely segregated. In 2016 the number of homicide cases increased by 30% to over 700 although all other cities are becoming safer (Toronto is less than 10% of that number). Yes, it is a grander and more interesting city than Toronto, but this is a huge turn off.
Seattle is a nice city, with agood job market and high salary, and lower cost of living compared with NYC/Boston etc, but based on my understand of your preference, it possesses no old city charm. It has a small downtown, rather sterile in my point of view. You won't think about culture or grandeur when you are on Seattle. People love it for the nature, not achitecture or urbanity.
It has a mild climate, but not a good one. Probably more in line with Bretagne France. Grey and rainy winter which last 5 months of the year. Not bitterly cold but not pleasant either.
Yes, unfortunately all charming cities in North America have horrible weather: Boston, Montreal and to some extent NYC. Forget west coast. Even the post card city San Francisco is pretty ugly an typical North American taste in my opinion.
regarding CHicago: Chicago has some nice areas, but the city is extremely segregated. In 2016 the number of homicide cases increased by 30% to over 700 although all other cities are becoming safer (Toronto is less than 10% of that number). Yes, it is a grander and more interesting city than Toronto, but this is a huge turn off.
Liking the way you see things, I'd say the same about all of those cities. Where are you livin right now? It's the most difficult choice in the world for me deciding this stuff. One day I want to stay in europe for the culture, the next I want modernity, then the next I want everything mixed together (almost everyday). It's complicated, even though I know I will be back here every summer since I have a house in southern italy and my boyfriend has his family still in Stockholm.
Really hard decision. Those cities like Berlin for example, the design is great because so many european creatives are moving there, they sill have the culture because it is in Europe and with all the war... hoever, it will always be difficult there because EVERYONE is in art and design, like stockholm. Eventually I just feel like a number in those cities, especially since I dont even know the language and I am not comfortable with the difference in culture, it is so much different thank italian culture. Rven though everyone speaks english in those cities.
My mind is constantly going back and forth between toronto, maybe some cities in germany or even denmark.. but in the end its always the same problems.. weather, culture, language, terrorists ..
Liking the way you see things, I'd say the same about all of those cities. Where are you livin right now? It's the most difficult choice in the world for me deciding this stuff. One day I want to stay in europe for the culture, the next I want modernity, then the next I want everything mixed together (almost everyday). It's complicated, even though I know I will be back here every summer since I have a house in southern italy and my boyfriend has his family still in Stockholm.
Really hard decision. Those cities like Berlin for example, the design is great because so many european creatives are moving there, they sill have the culture because it is in Europe and with all the war... hoever, it will always be difficult there because EVERYONE is in art and design, like stockholm. Eventually I just feel like a number in those cities, especially since I dont even know the language and I am not comfortable with the difference in culture, it is so much different thank italian culture. Rven though everyone speaks english in those cities.
My mind is constantly going back and forth between toronto, maybe some cities in germany or even denmark.. but in the end its always the same problems.. weather, culture, language, terrorists ..
US and Canada are more wealthier than most European countries, which means one probably has more spending power and will get larger homes, and possibly better career opportunities too, but in Europe, anything outside one's own home is better, the streets, the transport, architecture, culture, the lifestyle everything is just more pleasant. You can't put a value on it because nothing really BELONGS to you, but it affects one's enjoyment of life greatly if you look beyond home ownership. But that's just me.
In the end you just have decide what is more important to you. Your big private space, or the beautiful public space and culture you see but don't own. I think that's the key difference between Europe and North America. Heck, I can't even find one single American/Canadian cities that is as charming as central Toulouse (which is not really known for being pretty).
Alyza, Europe is a collection of many countries and every country has an identity, culture centered around two things. Language and nationality. Of course if you don't speak German and are not a German citizen you will always feel like a second class citizen in Berlin. I know, I traveled there for some time. It's an amazing place. But laws are laws. Actually I don't like how strict Germans are when it comes to following laws. It seemed a bit Orwellian to my relaxed character.
I also have a friend who is Canadian and speaks many languages, she loves Europe but she travels from country to country every time she gets different job offers - but there's no way she will be able to settle down in any of these countries, at least it's not as easy as just getting citizenship in a few years.
I'll echo Boticelli. N. America chases money and it's a noble thing to do, considering the world revolves around it. But I also understand the psychological repercussions this could have, particularly on those who get tired of this way of thinking. Some people look beyond the borders for this. Another thing - money can be made anywhere. Think of online businesses or businesses involved in trade. You can live on pennies in a country like Ukraine, Thailand or Mexico with an amazing standard of living.
As someone who lived in Montreal for 2 years I will say that you can never compare North America to Europe. Well, Montreal is a bit of an anomaly as you need to be OK with harsh winters and their - quite specific, and not all too appealing IMO - French culture and language.
That is why I enjoy Ukraine so much, I suppose. It's very cheap. very fun. exotic in a way. variend landscape, mountains, beaches in the south in the summer, snow up north, but not really as cold as Toronto. Another thing is that I have Ukrainian citizenship and speak the language - but there are tradeoffs with every geographic location. I imagine if I was Brazilian, I would be saying the same things about Brazil. Of course, Brazil, just like Ukraine wouldn't be for everyone, but those looking for "perfection" rarely seem to find it.
As far as your original question about a design-friendly city?
Los Angeles is the design capital of the world, so why not start your search there instead of Chicago. In the end you could find charm in virtually any city if you look hard enough.
Or just move to Ukraine - It's a bit third world in a sense, but then going to the sketchy areas of Chicago won't seem so bad
Last edited by architext; 01-03-2017 at 02:34 AM..
Alyza, Europe is a collection of many countries and every country has an identity, culture centered around two things. Language and nationality. Of course if you don't speak German and are not a German citizen you will always feel like a second class citizen in Berlin. I know, I traveled there for some time. It's an amazing place. But laws are laws. Actually I don't like how strict Germans are when it comes to following laws. It seemed a bit Orwellian to my relaxed character.
I also have a friend who is Canadian and speaks many languages, she loves Europe but she travels from country to country every time she gets different job offers - but there's no way she will be able to settle down in any of these countries, at least it's not as easy as just getting citizenship in a few years.
I'll echo Boticelli. N. America chases money and it's a noble thing to do, considering the world revolves around it. But I also understand the psychological repercussions this could have, particularly on those who get tired of this way of thinking. Some people look beyond the borders for this. Another thing - money can be made anywhere. Think of online businesses or businesses involved in trade. You can live on pennies in a country like Ukraine, Thailand or Mexico with an amazing standard of living.
As someone who lived in Montreal for 2 years I will say that you can never compare North America to Europe. Well, Montreal is a bit of an anomaly as you need to be OK with harsh winters and their - quite specific, and not all too appealing IMO - French culture and language.
That is why I enjoy Ukraine so much, I suppose. It's very cheap. very fun. exotic in a way. variend landscape, mountains, beaches in the south in the summer, snow up north, but not really as cold as Toronto. Another thing is that I have Ukrainian citizenship and speak the language - but there are tradeoffs with every geographic location. I imagine if I was Brazilian, I would be saying the same things about Brazil. Of course, Brazil, just like Ukraine wouldn't be for everyone, but those looking for "perfection" rarely seem to find it.
As far as your original question about a design-friendly city?
Los Angeles is the design capital of the world, so why not start your search there instead of Chicago. In the end you could find charm in virtually any city if you look hard enough.
Or just move to Ukraine - It's a bit third world in a sense, but then going to the sketchy areas of Chicago won't seem so bad
All great ideas except how on earth are they going to get work visas in the United States? U.S. has some of the most strict working visa criteria in the world, and the annual H1B program only has 85,000 total quota that requires employer sponsorship (last year over 250,000 qualified applicants applied but 70% were rejected because of the quota limit). You can't just say "let's find a job in LA or Chicago or NYC" when you are a foreigner - even if you are a Canadian.
Toronto/Montreal makes a lot more sense for the OP because all she needs to do is buy a plane ticket and land in Canada and start looking for work without the gigantic immigration bureaucratic nightmare that she'd have to endure if she chose LA or Chicago or NYC.
Thanks Architext. Do you think Chicago is far more advanced than Toronto when it comes to things to do/arts/theater scene.. all of that? I just keep hearing about how dangerous Chicago is And I know my boyfriend would not move there just for that. However I think Chicago has the best architecture and character out of all of the cities.
Oh god, no. Chicago is an extremely provincial city with an attitude. It thinks it's a little NY, but it's actually a big Milwaukee. If you didn't go to a Big 10 school in the US, then you'll have basically nothing in common with the people there, as all they care about is sports and getting obliterated with alcohol. It's basically a playground for white Midwestern transplants, who move there for 3-10 years after college so they can party with their frat/sorority friends, but as soon as they have their first kid they either move to the suburbs or go back to Ohio because it's cheaper and Mom can babysit. The vast majority of white people in Chicago have absolutely zero interest in the city as a long-term going concern, as long as they don't get shot and their condo isn't underwater. And the public services reflect that.
Toronto is a far, far, far (insert 300+ additional "far"s) more cosmopolitan, culturally interesting, and livable place. Second-biggest theater city in the English-speaking world after London, great music scene, infinitely more culturally diverse than Chicago, which is basically 1/3 white, 1/3 black, and 1/3 Mexican, and each of those groups has very little to do with the others. Oh, and in case you missed it, the US is entering a period of authoritarian populist rule.
I grew up in Chicago and fled (albeit far later than I should have) and have lived in Toronto. There's really no contest between the two cities. The only things Chicago has on Toronto are tacos and Lake Shore Drive. In quite literally every other way, Toronto is a superior city in which to live.
ETA: Oh, and with all due respect, your opinion of Montreal is woefully uninformed. It's really one of the most exciting cities on the continent.
All great ideas except how on earth are they going to get work visas in the United States? U.S. has some of the most strict working visa criteria in the world, and the annual H1B program only has 85,000 total quota that requires employer sponsorship (last year over 250,000 qualified applicants applied but 70% were rejected because of the quota limit). You can't just say "let's find a job in LA or Chicago or NYC" when you are a foreigner - even if you are a Canadian.
Toronto/Montreal makes a lot more sense for the OP because all she needs to do is buy a plane ticket and land in Canada and start looking for work without the gigantic immigration bureaucratic nightmare that she'd have to endure if she chose LA or Chicago or NYC.
I totally agree...we should ask the OP is she is aware of the immigration process to get into the US...no, is not that easy to choose NYC or Toronto.
Despite the RE bust, I still think that Spain is a pretty exciting country to live if you work in the architecture field.
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