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Toronto is a terrible place for making real friends. In my experience, you can work in a place for five years and never be invited out to anyone's home. I've gotten tired of trying to work at friendships in the G.T.A. Now I just stick to myself and say to hell with everyone. I've gotten this way after repeatedly working hard to try to get beyond the acquaintance stage with people, to no avail. The closest thing I have to a workplace friend is a guy who will invite me out for beer and chicken wings about once every three or four months. People in Toronto are too immersed in the culture of being busy all the time and tend to set their self worth based on how often they work.
As for the much-vaunted politeness I hear about all the time, it is true that people will say empty things like "please", "thanks", and "sorry" now and again. The problem is that the politeness is just a thin veneer and usually incredible rudeness lies just below that veneer and can bubble to the surface at any time.
I think Torontonians (and residents of the G.T.A.) are too obsessed with appearances and try to present themselves as the greatest thing since sliced bread, when they really need a reality check and a dose of humility. Toronto is not that great as far as cities go and is really no comparison to New York (the city that has Torontonians in unnecessary fits of penis envy all the time).
That was my somewhat disjointed dissertation on what I think of the people of the G.T.A. I know some Toronto booster will likely come on here and claim it's all my fault, but I don't care. I know the reality of the situation and don't find it expedient to delude myself.
Uh, I lived in New York for 10 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I was invited to someone's home. It just doesn't happen but it doesn't mean I don't have friendships that aren't valuable from that era. Instead of making invading a coworker's private space your goal perhaps you should initiate social outings in public places. The other thing is, because you work with someone doesn't make them compatible for friendships (God knows the least interesting people you might spend time with are the ones you work with, familiarity does not make people attractive as friends). You're also waiting for the invite (judging from your post) and not making the invite yourself.
Look beyond the office. Your other issue just might be your attitude, lack of initiative and maybe where you live. You say GTA but that's not the city. There's very little sense of place in the GTA versus a real urban environment with neighbors etc. One thing that surprised me when I moved to Toronto is seeing strangers talk to each other while queued up. It just doesn't happen in a lot of places. But I also did notice that there is an undercurrent of rudeness that CAN be challenged and has little to do with you and more with the stresses of living in a large fairly crowded (by Canadian standards) urban center where time feels valuable and failure means the streets (or can feel like it). Also joining some sort of organization can do wonders for your social life. You'll meet people that share the same interests AND for someone not used to a new city or even a big city, it makes it easier to navigate your new environment. People are pretty shallow, unless you are beautiful or that interesting, you really can't expect them to flock to you -friendships take work (especially in big cities) and sometimes a little alcohol.
Or you could just leave the city for a smaller less stressful environment before your drive yourself into complete bitterness.
Last edited by autobahn1; 10-24-2010 at 09:38 AM..
Uh, I lived in New York for 10 years and can count on one hand the amount of times I was invited to someone's home. It just doesn't happen but it doesn't mean I don't have friendships that aren't valuable from that era. Instead of making invading a coworker's private space your goal perhaps you should initiate social outings in public places. The other thing is, because you work with someone doesn't make them compatible for friendships (God knows the least interesting people you might spend time with are the ones you work with, familiarity does not make people attractive as friends). You're also waiting for the invite (judging from your post) and not making the invite yourself.
Look beyond the office. Your other issue just might be your attitude, lack of initiative and maybe where you live. You say GTA but that's not the city. There's very little sense of place in the GTA versus a real urban environment with neighbors etc. One thing that surprised me when I moved to Toronto is seeing strangers talk to each other while queued up. It just doesn't happen in a lot of places. But I also did notice that there is an undercurrent of rudeness that CAN be challenged and has little to do with you and more with the stresses of living in a large fairly crowded (by Canadian standards) urban center where time feels valuable and failure means the streets (or can feel like it). Also joining some sort of organization can do wonders for your social life. You'll meet people that share the same interests AND for someone not used to a new city or even a big city, it makes it easier to navigate your new environment. People are pretty shallow, unless you are beautiful or that interesting, you really can't expect them to flock to you -friendships take work (especially in big cities) and sometimes a little alcohol.
Or you could just leave the city for a smaller less stressful environment before your drive yourself into complete bitterness.
See what I mean? It's always about the person who points out the problem with the city. The city is always blameless, isn't it?
It's a large city and there are all kinds of people. But broadly speaking, I would say that Torontonians are fairly reserved. More so than Maritimers or Quebecers, but less so than Vancouverites. To make friends, you need to be proactive, to make the first move. It requires an effort, but it is by no means impossible.
That being said, it would be difficult to argue that it is easier to make friends in TO than in, say, Barcelona, Istanbul or even Montreal. Does it mean Toronto is a lesser city? Of course not. London and NYC are both fairly difficult cities but they're both great. No reason to be so defensive about it
This Realtor in Cobourg Ontario absolutely has the best idea.
When he has a family coming to their new neighbourhood he puts out announcements so they will be welcomed. Canadian may be reserved but I think we have much more class, and know how to say please, thank you and sorry.
Until you meet them on the 401, the Gardner, Don Mills, etc. on rush hour.. then you won't think they say please thank you and sorry.. its more like "out of my way you idiot".
Then they become just like any other stressed resident of any major worldwide city.
Last edited by minibrings; 10-24-2010 at 05:24 PM..
See what I mean? It's always about the person who points out the problem with the city. The city is always blameless, isn't it?
Well it usually is. Sometimes people (especially on these forums) don't have an inkling of how different Toronto is from the ROC, it's a true big city which is rare in Canada. It is not an easy place to make friends unless YOU take the time and effort into making them. When I moved to Toronto in December I hated it, felt isolated and was planning my exit in January. While friendly and polite I didn't make any connections except the ones I already had and they were too busy for social interaction that didn't involve a painful planning stage.
I also realized that in January, no one wants to live in Toronto. Period.
It's also a difficult city to be single in because of its size, being single feels like a failure. Perhaps because it is a finance and banking center and also a place where career can come first there seems to be an urgency in choosing mates and single people often can come across with an air of desperation that isn't conducive to meeting new people. And flirting is often misinterpreted as interest and not just flirting. Torontonians DO need to learn how to flirt without consequence.
Anyway, long story short, I made an effort joined a few organizations and now have to juggle invitations because if I didn't I'd never see the inside of my apartment.
I'm sure it also helps that I'm gorgeous and interesting but that's not a prerequisite to meeting new people.
"Instead of making invading a coworker's private space your goal perhaps you should initiate social outings in public places. The other thing is, because you work with someone doesn't make them compatible for friendships (God knows the least interesting people you might spend time with are the ones you work with,
...
..something else about looking in wrong place"
kinda agree...
However... generally(depending on what you do) your co-workers should have A LOT in common with you, unless you work in a very small company(or department) this should be a great place to start. Unless your co-workers believe their job is worth more than than the human experience.
If people can't find friends in coworkers --- we-all-beef-hooked.
Anyhow Toronto has been tough for me as well. My journey from New Brunswick started in Hamilton which seemed even colder. But having lived in Toronto now 3-4 years, I have pushed myself a bit further. But I think the issue is that the big city is not the canadian way.... I don't think we can handle more than a certain number of friends(because we are so friendly) depending on the person, and most people hit this theoretical (or social) limit before adulthood.
heh! If I had more Toronto friends I you never would have read this
I think it's wrong to lump almost 6 million people in one category as "unfriendly" just because they happen to live in the same city. That's almost as bad as racism or sexism when you say an entire group of people behave a certain way. Maybe there are a lot of unfriendly people in Toronto, but with almost 6 million, I'm sure there also a lot of friendly people.
I agree with this statement. There's no way you can stereotype cities like this. I think it depends on your own personal experiences and this is what readers should keep in mind when they read our responses.
From my experience, Toronto seems to be friendlier than quite a few cities in the U.S. However, I think the best way to make friends would be to join a group online or in the city and start getting to know one another that way. They seem very friendly when I walked up to them in bars and started talking to them, but I think it takes more time and more commonalities in order to make true friends. So, I say just take your time and don't be afraid to talk to people.
Frankly, I have more trouble making friends in Seattle or NYC, but I also feel more connected with the people in Toronto and Vancouver even though I'm not from Canada.
Having lived here for the last 6~7 years so. I agree with the opinions of people who have had hard time making friends here in Toronto. In general, people in Toronto are indifferent, too politically correct, snobbish and easily offended. This goes to both young and older generation but interestingly I found that older people are easier to talk to. It's normal to not get to know your neighbors. It's known that Toronto is probably the most diverse place in the world but I'd would say it's very fragmented place as well. People who used to live in Toronto usually never comes back. People of other places in Canada usually don't like Toronto and Torontonians. I certainly want to get out of here as goon as I can.
I think this may be a Canadian thing, I grew up in Edmonton/Calgary and I totally agree with the question. I used to travel to Toronto every year, and as superficial as my conversations with the people in Toronto were it's farther than you'll get out west - at least in Alberta. I've always thought Calgary was the coldest city in Canada socially, but I've found Americans to be more friendly/open in conversation than Canadians - so maybe it's all of us?
I think this may be a Canadian thing, I grew up in Edmonton/Calgary and I totally agree with the question. I used to travel to Toronto every year, and as superficial as my conversations with the people in Toronto were it's farther than you'll get out west - at least in Alberta. I've always thought Calgary was the coldest city in Canada socially, but I've found Americans to be more friendly/open in conversation than Canadians - so maybe it's all of us?
I think obnoxiousness would be the term you're looking for. But yeah I agree.. Canadians seem more reserved. Generally speaking of course.
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