Appeal hearing earlier today - Certification issue (receive, apply, claim)

[UnemployedTeacher]

I had my unemployment appeal hearing this morning (originally denied upon filing an unemployment claim). I wanted to get thoughts and opinions as I have not been able to find any similar circumstances to mine, in regards to a certification issue, through searching. I wasn't able to get a read on the judge running the meeting to know if my points were valid.

First, just an overview of a unique situation. I am school teacher and last year was my first year teaching. In Kentucky, upon obtaining your teaching degree, you are given a "provisional teaching certification" which is valid for 5 years. When you obtain a full time teaching position, during your first year, you complete a program called the Kentucky Teacher Internship Program (KTIP), which is basically a series of evaluations of your teaching skills from the school administrators which they send to the state to pass or fail you in KTIP. If the school passes you in KTIP, you are granted your permanent teaching certification. If the school fails you in KTIP, you remain provisionally certified and must complete KTIP again the following year.

Here is a timeline of events up to and after my termination:

- August 2012: Started the teaching position at the school

- February 2013: The first negative feedback I received...and discussion of possible termination if my teaching skills did not improve...as a result of a only a 20 minute observation by my principal.

- March 2013: After the February meeting, I partnered with mentors within the school, volunteered for additional training after hours, and signed up for every "professional development" course offered by the school. I put together a list of everything I had done to improve, and asked for a meeting with my principal to review and offer advice for further assistance. The principal set up a meeting, but later canceled due to a scheduling conflict she had and never rescheduled...despite several requests from me to do so over the next few weeks.

- April 2013: I was advised I was being non-renewed (terminated) at the end of the school year for subpar performance/skills. The principal advised I was able to resign in lieu of termination, and recommended I do so as it, "looks better on my record when I try to apply to other schools in the future." With either a termination or resignation, I was asked to fulfill my teaching contract (through June 30). After speaking this over with my family, five days after this meeting, I did sign a resignation.

- May 2013: My final KTIP evaluation was held, and the school principal advised they were failing me in KTIP, which meant I would maintain my provisional certification as opposed to receiving my permanent teaching certification.

- June 2013: The school year ended, and my resignation in lieu of termination went into effect. I applied for unemployment benefits while applying for teaching jobs at other schools.

- July 2013: I received a notification that my unemployment benefits were denied, because information from the employer stated I had voluntarily resigned, and if I had not done so, would have been terminated due to not maintaining my teaching certification as required by my employment contract.

-August 2013: I appealed the decision and had my hearing this morning. The employer did not show for the hearing. I based my argument on the following counter-points to the employer's statements to the unemployment office:

#1 - I contested that I did not "voluntarily" resign, as I was advised of termination and recommended to resign in lieu of termination. I did not want to leave the employment, and the school/principal was the party who acted to end the employment relationship.

#2 - While maintaining certification is indeed a condition of my contract, I did not lose my certification. As a result of them failing me in KTIP, I simply maintained a provisional certification as opposed to receiving my permanent certification. This provisional certification is the same one I was hired with and had during my entire tenure with the school. In addition, I received was advised of my termination and asked to resign a full month before my certification status was even determined!


Do I have a good chance here? I was happy that the employer did not show, and I thought this would be a slam dunk in my favor. The judge did not leave me with a very warm and fuzzy feeling though. I appreciate any advice or chiming-in from others with similar experiences.

[Ariadne22]

Were you able to submit any of this into evidence:

- February 2013: The first negative feedback I received...and discussion of possible termination if my teaching skills did not improve...as a result of a only a 20 minute observation by my principal.

- March 2013: After the February meeting, I partnered with mentors within the school, volunteered for additional training after hours, and signed up for every "professional development" course offered by the school. I put together a list of everything I had done to improve, and asked for a meeting with my principal to review and offer advice for further assistance. The principal set up a meeting, but later canceled due to a scheduling conflict she had and never rescheduled...despite several requests from me to do so over the next few weeks.

This is critical - that you made every effort to improve and that principal did not meet with you to review and offer further assistance.

Since you have five years to achieve a KTIP, a termination at this point is premature and shouldn't result in denial of benefits. But, it all depends on your state's posture on UE claims.

Hopefully, Chyvan may have suggestions on how to proceed if there is a denial, again.

[Chyvan]

The time to have come here was when you were first presented with the quit-or-be-fired choice. Never quit when given that choice. It doesn't look better. You simply assume a burden in obtaining unemployment benefits that you wouldn't have had if you'd been fired. Seriously, do you think HR people don't know that when you quit without going to a new job that maybe there was something wrong. Also, even if you quit when the former employer is contacted and possibly says, "we'd have fired the person anyway," that you're no further ahead by quitting.

In a quit-or-be-fired case, there is some very harsh case law that operates behind the scenes. One of the requirements is usually that failing to quit results in you immediately being walked out the door. From the below, it looks like you submitted your resignation in April, and didn't get the boot until June. It's not much of a stretch for an ALJ to conclude that had you refused to quit that there was a chance that the principal might have had a change of heart before the end of the school year. By quitting, you removed all possibility of that happening.

I realize that you'd still have time left on your provisional teaching certificate, but did you effectively communicate that to the ALJ. The other thing that can work against you is that the ALJ can rule your testimony is noncredible.

Hopefully, you get lucky, but things are stacked against you in my opinion.

Originally Posted by UnemployedTeacher

- April 2013: I was advised I was being non-renewed (terminated) at the end of the school year for subpar performance/skills. The principal advised I was able to resign in lieu of termination, and recommended I do so as it, "looks better on my record when I try to apply to other schools in the future." With either a termination or resignation, I was asked to fulfill my teaching contract (through June 30). After speaking this over with my family, five days after this meeting, I did sign a resignation.

- July 2013: I received a notification that my unemployment benefits were denied, because information from the employer stated I had voluntarily resigned, and if I had not done so, would have been terminated due to not maintaining my teaching certification as required by my employment contract.