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The letter is a Redetermination Notice. A redetermination comes about when an employer requested a new initial determination based on the initial submission of erroneous information. A common example is when they complete the form back to EDD but put Terminated Employee A's on Terminated Employee's B paperwork. Usually you would win the case because of the false info they would be unable to prove, but they have a right to correct information submitted upon discovery of their error. So, most likely your employer responded with information but when they saw the written initial determination saying "Quit" they filed for a redetermination citing an error on their part.
CA EDD will not issue a redetermination based on nothing, so, it was either your employer claiming mistake or an equally possible cause was that EDD put the wrong determination on the wrong person's notice, caught it and issued the correct determination.
Regardless of why, the issue of you quitting is no longer in play. That doesn't mean you forget about it, but if your employer presents a case full of unsubstantiated claims or they backtrack on information, and you know the employer was the one who made the error causing a redetermination, you can use it as evidence they have no idea what they are talking about and just make things up as they go.
NOW, assuming the appeals hearing will focus on your conduct, we need to address that. So describe in detail the events leading up to your termination, including what you said.
I went to work that day and about 2-3 hours into the shift, my manager comes in and tells me to get my stuff and come outside. I did what he asked, and he told me to leave and did not provide any explanation. I must admit I was glad because the job was a completely different position than what I had initially applied for. I applied for a lab technician position and I ended up doing something completely different. Also my feet were swollen with blisters, and at the end of each shift, when I got to my car, I couldn't get my shoes off quick enough!
This is speculation on my part, but the only thing that I can think of is earlier in the shift this new supervisor was coming over to each us at our stations. He was giving each of us a color chart and telling us we had to use it. The thing is each station already has a color chart as it is a requirement for the job. He came over to me and I just kept working and let him leave the color chart on my table, and I said nothing. The girl next to me got very angry. After the supervisor left her the color chart he walked away, she threw it, and said "I know my colors, I don't need this". He then told her from across the room that management wants everyone to have the chart. So after he left her station, she yelled, "This s*cks d*ck very loud! I have a feeling I may have gotten the blame for this as I was sitting right next to her. Keep in mind, the supervisor was across the room so he did not have a perfect view of who made the remark. This company is really big on hiring family members. There were 11 people working there at that time of the day. One was a mother with here 3 children, and their cousin. Then there were 2 other girls who were also cousins. The girl that made the comment was the cousin of another employee on the shift. I was the new girl. I think the supervisor assumed that I was the one that made the remark. It was not me! Again, this is speculation on my part.
During the phone interview on 1/6/15, the EDD representative said that my former employer told them I quit. I told the EDD representative that I was fired and did not quit. When I filed my claim on 12/17/14 I said the reason for separation was that I was fired, but EDD said that employer disputed this by saying that I quit. This is totally false and there was no mention of obscene language during the interview. So I was denied on 1/14/15. Then the redetermination on 1/21/15 that I received today 1/26/15 said I was fired for "obscene language"? The redetermination says the former employer said I was fired for obscene language. The employer gave more false information intentionally and I do not believe it was an error. I was never warned about about anything. So I am at a loss. I was terminated on 9/23/14. The form that was mailed with my final paycheck was dated 9/24/14 and signed by someone else on my behalf. The form had 2 boxes checked, one for insubordination, and one for unsatisfactory performance with no detailed explanation, just the boxes were checked. The form also indicates that I was never warned or written up. Nobody ever said anything to me so I have no idea what the "obscene language" is except for what I mentioned in the previous paragraph and again, this is speculation on my part because I was never told anything. They also never said anything to me about unsatisfactory performance. I have the information about the form that was sent with my paycheck in a previous post on page 2. If you could let me know your thoughts about how to handle myself at the hearing or any other suggestions, that would be much appreciated! Thanks again
Just know that you do NOT have to prove that you didn't do these things.
It's ok to speculate to us, but do NOT do it to an EDD worker. I don't think the employer is going to show up, and if they do this supervisor that "heard" you won't be there.
Just know that you do NOT have to prove that you didn't do these things.
It's ok to speculate to us, but do NOT do it to an EDD worker. I don't think the employer is going to show up, and if they do this supervisor that "heard" you won't be there.
Thanks again Chyvan! I did not mention the incident to the EDD representative during the phone interview. Honestly at the time, I had forgotten all about it. She only wanted yes or no responses to the questions, which is probably a good thing. I hope the employer does not show up. If they do, I will remain professional and just answer the questions the judge asks of me. Do you think I should show the judge the dismissal form that says I was fired? At least that would show that the employer is not being truthful. Please let me know what you think. In my eyes the former employer does not look very credible. Have a great day
Do you think I should show the judge the dismissal form that says I was fired?
Not sure yet.
I'm just having trouble with the flow of events. You got a "false statement" because of "quit" vs "discharge."
Then you did an appeal request.
Then this REdetermination showed up. Could be that it was in reponse to your appeal request and the "false statement" is over, but then you have this new separation issue.
My thinking is that you need to wait for the hearing notices to appear, then view the file, and based on your assessment of what might happen at the hearing, you may or may not need that letter.
If there is a high probability of an employer no-show or wrong person, then you don't have to use the form. The problem with the form is that it says a little too much. If it just said, "discharged," I'd use it, but it has some more stuff that makes you look bad, and I'd prefer to not go there unless truly necessary. The less explaining or question that takes place, the better.
I'm just having trouble with the flow of events. You got a "false statement" because of "quit" vs "discharge."
Then you did an appeal request.
Then this REdetermination showed up. Could be that it was in reponse to your appeal request and the "false statement" is over, but then you have this new separation issue.
My thinking is that you need to wait for the hearing notices to appear, then view the file, and based on your assessment of what might happen at the hearing, you may or may not need that letter.
If there is a high probability of an employer no-show or wrong person, then you don't have to use the form. The problem with the form is that it says a little too much. If it just said, "discharged," I'd use it, but it has some more stuff that makes you look bad, and I'd prefer to not go there unless truly necessary. The less explaining or question that takes place, the better.
Thanks again Chyvan! I will wait until I can see the file. Then I can figure out how to approach this.
Thanks again Chyvan! I will wait until I can see the file. Then I can figure out how to approach this.
Yep, until you see the file and what they are actually saying, you really have no idea hat the actual incident they are using. But, remember this, you have no obligation to present or provide squat until it's your turn to testify. Since you are saying the incident never happened, there is nothing for you to provide in advance for a incident that did not happen. Additionally, and absorb this, you have no need to defend yourself until your employer has presented their case and its merits have been accepted by the ALJ. Anything you do in advance, just tips your hand!
Yep, until you see the file and what they are actually saying, you really have no idea hat the actual incident they are using. But, remember this, you have no obligation to present or provide squat until it's your turn to testify. Since you are saying the incident never happened, there is nothing for you to provide in advance for a incident that did not happen. Additionally, and absorb this, you have no need to defend yourself until your employer has presented their case and its merits have been accepted by the ALJ. Anything you do in advance, just tips your hand!
Great advice Rabrrita! I will wait to see what is in the file, and what is said at the hearing. This will be interesting. I was never warned or written up for anything so that will work to my advantage. The burden of proof is on them. As long as I remain calm and don't volunteer information or engage with them, I should be okay. Of course I will defend myself if they make any false accusations. The only thing I am worried about is that they have already lied. If they do show up at the hearing, they might continue to lie and present false evidence. Even then, they are the ones that have the burden of proof. I just hope this judge has a good BS detector. I will keep everybody posted. Thanks again for the help
Great advice Rabrrita! I will wait to see what is in the file, and what is said at the hearing. This will be interesting. I was never warned or written up for anything so that will work to my advantage. The burden of proof is on them. As long as I remain calm and don't volunteer information or engage with them, I should be okay. Of course I will defend myself if they make any false accusations. The only thing I am worried about is that they have already lied. If they do show up at the hearing, they might continue to lie and present false evidence. Even then, they are the ones that have the burden of proof. I just hope this judge has a good BS detector. I will keep everybody posted. Thanks again for the help
My appeal is scheduled for 2/12. The EDD rep sent me my file which I received today, 2/4. This is what is referenced in my file. Please let me know what you think! I think they can't keep their story straight, and they are contradicting themselves. Please tell me if you agree, and whatever else you guys think. They never say what I have said, and they are not telling the truth in many of their statements. They give no evidence of what I allegedly said, they have nothing.
Under Employer/Agent is says:
The clmt was discharged last job on 092314 as she was upset, making derogatory comments to er (er will c/b within 48 hrs)
Er std the clmt was very upset, and used foul language, specifics not given. Er had sent her home after that.
Er std the next day er had attempted to contact her for one week, and later wr had mailed a letter she could come and pick up her check. Er end up mailing her check. The clot was working swing shirt hrs, f/t, seasonal.
Under Claimant Information it says:
Per slot she was told to leave on 092314. No last incident. Er had not given any info. why she had to leave. C/s she had not quit, she not made any derogatory comments and has not any profanity. The clmt sts she was doing her best to perform her duties. (seasonal employee, swing shift)
Under Summary of Material Facts and Reason For Decision:
Er had stated the clmt had quit her job on 092314. Er had stated the clmt was very upset on 092314 and had used profanity at work. Er had instructed the clmt to leave. We std the slot was contacted in the next week but had not contacted and has not reported to work. Er had no choice to mail her last check.
The clmt had disagreed with re's statement and indicated she fired from her last on 092314 without given any specific reason. The clmt had stated she had not quit, and had not used foul language at work.
The department finds the clot had not given er any chance to resolve the problem. Based on the available info., the dept. concludes the clmt doesn't meet the legal requirements for ui benefits.
*Redet after review by Appl Specialist in regards to Clmt being discharged for using foul language and did not quit. ER stated on 1/6/15 that Clmt was discharged as she made derogatory remakes to ER and ER sent Clmt home. ER then added the Clmt quit position. Clmt stated she did not quit but was told to leave work.
Based on available info, the separation is considered a discharge as Clmt was using foul language. Clmt's actions in foul language amounted to willful misconduct at work and Clmt is not eligible for UI due to her actions. ER RD, MC 255H, V.Y. 1/20/15*)
It's clear the employer did originally make it a quit but changed it to a discharge although they still said you quit.
Unemployment made a re-determination based on the added info from the employer and accepted it as a discharge.
Here's where it gets interested, if it was a quit, all your employer needs to say is you never showed up, contacted them, answered your phones and only wanted to pick up your check. That would be satisfactory as a quit especially since an employer can not produce anything when you walk out and not show back up.
BUT, in a way, by having it listed as a discharge, your employer must prove their position. They no longer get to make a claim but have to back it up with proof AND you are no longer in the postilion to have to prove that your quitting was justified or having to try and convince unemployment it was really a termination.
Let me think on this and hopefully the other can help with what to actually expect.
It's clear the employer did originally make it a quit but changed it to a discharge although they still said you quit.
Unemployment made a re-determination based on the added info from the employer and accepted it as a discharge.
Here's where it gets interested, if it was a quit, all your employer needs to say is you never showed up, contacted them, answered your phones and only wanted to pick up your check. That would be satisfactory as a quit especially since an employer can not produce anything when you walk out and not show back up.
BUT, in a way, by having it listed as a discharge, your employer must prove their position. They no longer get to make a claim but have to back it up with proof AND you are no longer in the postilion to have to prove that your quitting was justified or having to try and convince unemployment it was really a termination.
Let me think on this and hopefully the other can help with what to actually expect.
Thanks very much for reading this, and I await your thoughts. I don't think they have any proof. It never happened. Remember I still have that form, but now I am thinking I will not need to provide it. I wonder if they will show up. Thanks again
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