NJ voluntary quit with good cause relating to work (i hope.. ) (file, receive)

[tom23rd]

hi, I recently left my main job of 4 years. Two years ago, I quit a part time job which was providing health benefits and supplementing my income from the main job. the main job was paying less than 1/2 of the median income for positions with similar responsibilites according to glassdoor.com.

The main employer requested that i quit the second job, on the promise of a raise and health benefits, at the end of 2014. he wanted my full attention and afterhours support, so that's what i decided to do. I left the secondary job, and lost the healthcare benefits, which resulted in a massive increase in monthly healthcare expenditure out of pocket (of which i have documentation). I fought with my employer for over a year about making good on his promise, but i was never even given a yearly employee performance review, let alone the promised increase in pay or health benefits. I literally could not afford to work for that employer anymore without his follow through on the promised increase and benefits, and my health has been in decline due to being unable to afford certain medical care. i was literally falling apart waiting, prodding, reminding etc.

I filed UI claim in NJ as voluntarily quit because i wasn't sure what else i could file as, figuring i'd end up getting a phone call or something. well, i received notice of a phone interview, and today is the day. the appointment was for 11:20am and now it is almost 12:50pm. The wait is nerve wracking!

two questions:

1: how long should i wait around by the phone until calling them?

2: what's your opinion on my chances of being awarded UI?

thanks. I will update when i know more about my situation, in the meantime it is good therapy writing this out

[Rabrrita]

You may not get a call as you quit and that's an easy denial. You will almost always have to appeal a denial on a quit. Even if they call, no matter what you claim, they probably will just deny and have you deal with the facts at an appeal hearing.

As for your chanced, that depends on your proof. Can you prove what you say (promises at hiring and steps to rectify the situation) with verifiable authenticated documents or with firsthand witnesses that will appear at a hearing?

[tom23rd]

well, they called, the interview lasted about 1/2 hr. I was able to state the facts of my case without falling into emotion and without being anything other than polite or truthful, so i feel good about that aspect.

they attempted to reach my former employer, and had to leave a message.

the law allows my former employer 48 hours to repond, and if a rebuttal is needed i will receive a phone call on monday. otherwise i will receive a a written notice if i am denied, or receive benefits if approved. I should know by this time next week.

will let you know.

[Rabrrita]

Since this is a quit, they may not even care if the employer responds or not as the burden of proving "Just Cause" rest solely with you. All your employer has to do is say "quit" or send a copy of your resignation and they are out of the picture at this stage of the game.

One of the purposes of the telephone interview is to solicit "self admissions". This is when the interviewer ask certain questions or allows you to go down a path where what you are saying has less importance than certain words you say. By getting you to admit to certain items during the interview, if it comes down to an appeal, you may be fighting against your own words being used against you.

The interviewers are trained to be very kind to you as they want you to be comfortable and talk. The more you talk, the more they may solicit a denial reasons. They are also trained to make you always feel like things went your way. Few (if anyone) has ever reported they actually received a call back. Usually on a just cause quit, they will ask you to fax them copies of your documentation if going your way.

Just know that it's easier (and may be required if certain boxes and responses are made) for the interviewer to deny based on statutory denial reasons and have you appeal and present the actual facts before an ALJ. If you are denied, don't panic because it may just be standard procedure an the real fight is the Appeals Hearing where the full facts are examined under oath and following the Code of Civil Procedure. At the stage you are now, its just administrative paperwork stamping.

Oh, and just to add, even if they do make a favorable determination and grant benefits, your former employer will have the right to appeal and request a full hearing where you'll have to provide proof of your reasoning.

[Ariadne22]

Quits are always tough. There is no approval in sight here, anytime soon. Interviewers are not authorized to sort through the minutia of he said/she said on a quit - and, especially since you've worked under unfavorable conditions for over a year.

This means, OP, you will need to appeal and provide evidence of unfulfilled promises. At that, your chances of a win in NJ are at best 50%. By the time you receive current decision (one/two weeks), have an appeal hearing (two months earliest), and receive appeal decision (1-2 weeks thereafter) and your money (another week), three months will have gone by, at least.

NJ doesn't expedite claimant appeals, unfortunately. Employer appeals, on the other hand, are heard within a few weeks.

[Chyvan]

An employer breaking a "promise" can be good cause to quit and get UI, but I have problems with events, the time line, and your story.

Originally Posted by tom23rd

hi, I recently left my main job of 4 years. Two years ago, I quit a part time job which was providing health benefits and supplementing my income from the main job. the main job was paying less than 1/2 of the median income for positions with similar responsibilites according to glassdoor.com.

This suggests that for 2 years after the employer broke his promise that you kept working there. Also, the fact that the job paid 1/2 what you think you should have been making is meaningless because if it paid less than market, you should have never accepted the job in the first place.

Originally Posted by tom23rd

on the promise of a raise and health benefits, at the end of 2014.

Can you even prove the promise? You either need undisputable documentation via text, email, or memos, or the employer needs to admit to it (and they may chose not to).

Originally Posted by tom23rd

I fought with my employer for over a year about making good on his promise,

Even if you prove that you complained to your employer for a year (however the story suggests that you should have been doing it for two years), it may be considered "too long" and "acceptance." There comes a point where you know you were duped, and you do something about it (like quit) a long time ago.

Originally Posted by tom23rd

I literally could not afford to work for that employer anymore

I sure hope you didn't say that. That translates to "you quit for personal financial reasons."

The real reason you quit is because your employer broke a "promise" that you may not be able to prove was ever made, or because of the amount of time that had ticked by, that you had any real reason to believe would ever come to be.

[tom23rd]

tl;dr was D/Q'd after initial hearing in early June. filed appeal the same day notice of DQ arrived. had a rather intense hearing over the phone near the end of June. today i was notified that my DQ was reversed, that i would be receiving benefits.

------------------------------------- now to expand. i'm leaving stuff vague b/c of privacy concerns, but you'll get the drift. feel free to ask questions, i'll try to answer.

1. initially i had the interview with the deputy in may, mid-month. it was a brief conversation. he asked me a lot of yes or no type questions, and indeed i did not get to explain the details to him.

2. 2 weeks later i received the notice of disqualification, on 5/30

3. right away i went to www.njuifile.net and filed an appeal online, on 5/30, stating in the appeal reason the facts of when and what transpired the led from being employed to becoming not employed, which included some terrible things, rewriting it 20 times because i didn't want to whine or make accusations or personal comment, just state what happened and when. eventually that night i sent in the appeal form via the site

4. I received notice of the hearing by telephone mid-month June. i was given the contact information, and learned i would need to call 15 min ahead of time to register for a call back. the notice was wonderfully full of my rights and those of the employer. the call would take place near the end of the month.

5. end of june - i called to register for a call back for my hearing. 20 min later i got my call back to start hearing.

6. the person conducting the hearing called me back, informed me of what the procedure for the call was, that it would be taped, gained my consent and acknowledgement that i understood what she explained.

6.1 she further explained that she had contacted the employer and left a message. after a statutory period given for them to return the call and express interest in being a part of proceedings, they did not respond. She informed me that this would then be a decision made solely at the discretion of the tribunal etc etc and how i could then appeal further if necessary.

6.2 then she swore me in, read a brief opening statement and then allowed for my statement. i explained in as objective a manner the details of the demise of my position and the details of unacceptable circumstances endured over the whole process, including bigotry. i did not paint myself as a victim, nor did i give opinions about the employer's behavior, i merely stated the facts as i saw them and had documented.

6.3 beyond that, when asked at the initial conversation with the deputy, i still did not know my employment status officially, as i had never told anyone i quit, they had never fired me, and avoided my attempts to find out from them, so when i asked the deputy he pretty much said "so you quit."

6.4 she then asked me some questions, and at one point it seemed to me like she was pressing a little hard. keeping up the tension she then reviewed the facts by asking me about them. i forced myself to take it and did my best to continue just telling the truth by way of facts and figures. eventually she let off the pressure. in retrospect i guess she was trying to see if my facts changed when stress was applied. i damn near burst into tears, but i restrained myself and just gave her the answers as best as i remember them.

7. today, saturday july 2, it came in the mail. opening the determination letter was kinda intense, but i'll spare you anymore of my drama. her finding of fact showed that she understood exactly what i had explained to her. she gave her opinion in terms of being in accordance with a specific statute and then stated that my testimony is credible, competent and not contradicted. she saw my employers actions as effectively severing my employment, and therefore i could not have quit voluntarily. the last line says it nicely. the decision by the deputy to disqualify me was reverse.


going forward i do not know if they will make me wait until the 20day appeal window for this hearing shuts or not, since my ex-employer chose not to respond but that will prolly be my final update to this .

[tom23rd]

i just approached it head on. i explained it was verbally made. i probably got lucky that the employer chose not to respond to the DOL's attempts to get their side of the story. their appeal window came and went, so it was left to the discretion of the examiner. i also did a lot of praying, and shaking my leg up and down sitting at my bedroom desk.

[Chyvan]

This write up, while describing the process, doesn't address WHY you got benefits. What was your Good cause? How is it that you were able to be excused for waiting over a year after being duped?

[Ariadne22]

OP - thanks for the update. I am pleased to read NJ has streamlined its process and appeals can be resolved in under two months and your outcome was favorable.

Please post the exact reasoning behind this decision. Thanks.