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I was terminated on 4/28/16 for attendance. I was late an hour and 45 mins (overslept) and was warned in the past for it. Had a phone interview scheduled for 5/19/2016 that I missed due to providing the incorrect phone number. Just received a determination notice today saying i was denied. Clearly going to appeal and will need some help. I will list the letter word for word...
Issue 004 602A - Misconduct
Deny Effective 04/24/2016 -12/31/1999
Was the claimant discharged for misconduct with the work? The evidence shows the claimant was discharged from (Employers name) because he was tardy. The Claimant was one hour and forty five mins late to work because he overslept. He had been previously warned. Since the reason the claimant was discharged constituted a violation of a known and reasonable company rule, the claimant was discharged for misconduct connected with the work. The claimant is ineligible for benefits from 04/24/2016 and will be determined ineligible until he meets the eligibility requirements.
If I am correct my employer would have to prove I acted willful to legally constituate misconduct? Is oversleeping considered willfull?
Below is my companies attendance policy....Policy
The value of a Company employee is determined in part by his/her dependability. The Company, our customers and co-workers depend on employees to be present to do their work, as they are essential members of the team. Therefore, it is important that employees be prompt and regular in their attendance. When an employee knows in advance that they will need to be away from work, they should give their manager as much notice as possible.
At times, circumstances may cause an employee to be absent from work for all or part of a day. However, an employee may put his/her employment with the Company in jeopardy if absences or tardiness become excessive. Even though an employee may have sick, personal or vacation time available for use, the employee may still be subject to disciplinary action for excessive absenteeism.
If it is necessary for an employee to be late, absent, or leave early for any reason, the employee is responsible for following the call-in procedure for the work team or department.
While call-in procedures vary by department and location, there are some general requirements that are universal to all employees:
· An employee must speak directly to their manager, supervisor or department designated call-in point, before their start time.
· A voicemail message or text message is insufficient, unless authorized by the manager, supervisor, or department designated call-in point of contact.
· The employee should explain why he/she is late or absent and when he/she expects to return to work. Also, the employee must leave a phone number where they can be reached.
· If appropriate, the employee must provide an update on any pending work assignments that may need to be handled in the employee’s absence. The manager may need to reschedule/redistribute the employee’s work activities.
Page 2
It is an employee’s responsibility to ensure that proper notification is given. Failure to do so will subject the employee to disciplinary action up to and including termination. If an employee will be absent for more than one day, he/she must call in daily unless other arrangements are made with management. This is to keep management informed as to the employee’s anticipated return to work. On a case by case basis, an employee may be required to submit a doctor’s note to verify an illness or injury. The doctor’s note should include:
· Date(s) employee is/was under physician’s care;
· Expected date on which he/she is expected to return to work;
· A release to work to full duty or with restrictions;
· If there are restrictions, they must be clearly defined and evaluated by Human Resources (HR Consultant).
If an employee is absent from work for three (3) consecutive days without giving proper notice to management, the Company may treat the employee as having voluntarily abandoned his/her job, and employment may be terminated.
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I was fired the same day I was late. I clocked in at 10:49am and was fired within 27 mins as I clocked out at 11:17am. The day I was late, as soon as I woke up (and realized i was late) i immediately called my manager and she did not answer. i texted her and she replied back saying she was on a conf call. Do I have a shot at winning this on appeal?
"The Claimant was one hour and forty five mins late to work because he overslept. He had been previously warned. Since the reason the claimant was discharged constituted a violation of a known and reasonable company rule, the claimant was discharged for misconduct connected with the work"
I doubt you'll win on appeal.
Seems like you need to be more responsible in general...
If I am correct my employer would have to prove I acted willful to legally constituate misconduct? Is oversleeping considered willfull?
Your former employer doesn't determine if your actions are willful or not, it is the State of Illinois that made that determination based on the information your former employer provided.
Willful is generally based on an action under your control that occurs by your own hands. Are you responsible for when you go to sleep? Are you responsible for setting your own alarm clock? Do you have free will to decide how to control your sleep because you are not physically under the control of another? If the answer is yes to these, you controlled your own conduct so it's willful.
However, if you can show that you were locked inside a hospital and placed into a state of unconsciousness and that you had no control over when you regained consciousness and it was the staff that keep you incapacitated which cause you to be late, you can use that to defeat the willful determination. In this case, you had no hand in what had occurred and you had no say or control over the time of awakening so it would not be a willful act as it was not at your own hands. Of course, if this was some non medically necessary experiment where you were told it may result in late awakenings, willful would still apply.
The Claimant was one hour and forty five mins late to work because he overslept.
How did the UI people know this? Did you tell them? If so, don't admit to things. That was your employer's job, and you did it for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by david683
He had been previously warned.
Did you tell the UI people that you were warned? Did the employer submit the warning?
Personally, I think you confessed yourself right into a denial. I want to know what you put on your application, and what you told the UI worker as to your separation.
Go ahead and submit the appeal REQUEST. "The determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."
With enough information, you might be able to modify your story so it sounds more like "that's what I was told," rather than you spilling your guts for no good reason, and tell all your family, friends and anyone that will listen: When you get fired from your job, you do NOT have to tell the UI people WHY. Let the employer do their own dirty work.
I get so sick knowing that in this day and age of the internet and the ease of accessing information that claimants are still their own worst enemy in UI matters.
Also, my schedule was 11a-8p. At my job OT was always approved. So i began coming in at 9am and that became a norm. When I was written up in the past it was for 2 issues. 1, for not coming in at 8am for a meeting(an email was sent, i didnt see it. came in at 9am) and the second and final write up was for missing 3 days of work as my father had a heart attack. on both of those write ups my manager included wordage saying i was arriving late on certain days but i was not as my official start time was 11am not 9am. When i was fired, i made sure to keep my time cards for up to the last 6 or so months as my time cards show me coming in at all different times, but never AFTER 11am which was my scheduled time. So there are many days where im clocking in at 930am, 10am, 1030am and was clearly never held accountable for those days. I feel I was terminated as I was in the process of requesting a leave of absence to care for my father, my manager was aware of this and i was suppose to get the approval that day. My father had the heart attack a week and a half before i was fired. Also, there were never any physical schedules printed.
How did the UI people know this? Did you tell them? If so, don't admit to things. That was your employer's job, and you did it for them.
Did you tell the UI people that you were warned? Did the employer submit the warning?
Personally, I think you confessed yourself right into a denial. I want to know what you put on your application, and what you told the UI worker as to your separation.
Go ahead and submit the appeal REQUEST. "The determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."
With enough information, you might be able to modify your story so it sounds more like "that's what I was told," rather than you spilling your guts for no good reason, and tell all your family, friends and anyone that will listen: When you get fired from your job, you do NOT have to tell the UI people WHY. Let the employer do their own dirty work.
I get so sick knowing that in this day and age of the internet and the ease of accessing information that claimants are still their own worst enemy in UI matters.
I did not have a phone interview as I had missed it. So that 1hr and 45 mins late is coming from my employer. I'm not 100% sure, but i may have said I was warned in the past for attendance. When I was asked if I knew why I was terminated, I said no.
I did not have a phone interview as I had missed it. So that 1hr and 45 mins late is coming from my employer. I'm not 100% sure, but i may have said I was warned in the past for attendance. When I was asked if I knew why I was terminated, I said no.
Thank goodness. I can work with this.
At a hearing the employer is going to have to appear, and present evidence that you were actually 1 hr and 45 mins late. They will also have to produce proof that you were warned.
Just hope your employer doesn't show, sends the wrong person, or doesn't bring the right proof, and it does happen.
While you can try to make the case that it's not misconduct, that's not the best strategy. Do not admit that you did anything, make the employer prove what they say in the correct way, and you just might pull it off.
I had my appeal hearing today by phone. My boss was on the call. They claimed I was late by "an hour and 30 mins" I denied I was late as my start time was different from what they were claiming. When I was allowed to ask my boss questions I started with "what was my scheduled start time"
They replied 9am to 5p, no 11a to 7p or 8p, sorry I don't have the information in front of me 8a to 4pm" I then asked how my performance overall was and they stated "good". The judge asked if I was late and I said no as my start time was 11am and I clocked in at 1049am. I told him my punches have always ranged in start times but they were always before 11am. He then asked them if this was true and my boss agreed. He then asked why so many different pinches and they replied due to work demands. No evidence was presented nor did my employer ask me any questions. The judge asked if I was held accountable in the past for attendance and I said I was for missing 3 days due to caring for a sick family member. He confirmed his with the employer and they agreed that was accurate. No evidence was referred to nor received on my end. So now I just wait for the judgement. I feel god as it was my word vs theirs with (as far as I am aware) no documents to prove heir claims (we had no schedules made) the only thing that was a downside for me was I was super nervous and my voice was cracking and my phone cut out a few times which seemed to annoy the ref. I will update when I receive my letter. Thank you to those on this site that take their time to help out others!
they were always before 11am. He then asked them if this was true and my boss agreed.
I like this part. I think you did a good job.
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