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Old 11-18-2014, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,821 posts, read 4,528,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
I wouldn't consider it "just speculation". If you accept everything that we know about the origins and formation of the universe as valid and correct, then it is totally absurd to suggest that for some reason our solar system, and more specifically, our planet, is the one and only place where all of the factors that result in the creation of (intelligent) life have come together.
I agree (I could have written pages justifying my assumptions but no one would have read it), but again ... It's a matter of probabilities. It's likely there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but whether it's next door or in a galaxy far away, and whether it's at a superior level of technology depends on a large number of factors, including the probability that a civilization will last long enough to reach out to the stars, the value of which are unknown. We now know for example that an asteroid or a major solar flare could wipe out our civilization, something we didn't know fifty years ago. The more we learn, the more surprising it is that we got this far.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:36 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 8,652,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
I wouldn't consider it "just speculation". If you accept everything that we know about the origins and formation of the universe as valid and correct, then it is totally absurd to suggest that for some reason our solar system, and more specifically, our planet, is the one and only place where all of the factors that result in the creation of (intelligent) life have come together.
You've got it wrong my friend. It is most certainly NOT absurd to say that we simply do not know if there is any life elsewhere or not. As I said, there's nothing wrong with asking the question. It is significant part of our human nature to wonder about something we'd like to know the answer to. But to state that there is intelligent life elsewhere, with no conclusive evidence to back it up, is indeed speculative. It's not factual.

Looking at some old paintings that may have some odd features does not automatically mean those features must be proof of UFOs and ETs visiting the Earth as the only possible explanation. A lot of these things are either symbolic or pareidolia.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:25 PM
 
18 posts, read 20,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarl View Post
Not a UFO. That is clearly a painting of the eastern European Flying Land Clam.
They are long thought to be extinct but there have been the oddball sightings once in a while.
lol That's awesome. You must be right!
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:44 PM
 
1,385 posts, read 1,310,315 times
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This is what you said: "I would think there's at least microbial life elsewhere, but again, we have no evidence to draw such a conclusion. It's just speculation." So what I draw from this is that you think the possibility of any life is "just speculation" - but given what we know about the universe and the process by which it began and has evolved, there is no logical reason for arguing that there isn't (or hasn't been) any other life of any kind out there. Yes, I know that scientists don't want us to believe anything until they given it their approval, but this one is pretty obvious.

Symbolic of what, then? Do you see any paintings of football games or refrigerators? But for some reason these people were able to conceive of people flying in disc-shaped objects etc. Pareidolia is a particularly weak excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
You've got it wrong my friend. It is most certainly NOT absurd to say that we simply do not know if there is any life elsewhere or not. As I said, there's nothing wrong with asking the question. It is significant part of our human nature to wonder about something we'd like to know the answer to. But to state that there is intelligent life elsewhere, with no conclusive evidence to back it up, is indeed speculative. It's not factual.

Looking at some old paintings that may have some odd features does not automatically mean those features must be proof of UFOs and ETs visiting the Earth as the only possible explanation. A lot of these things are either symbolic or pareidolia.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
This is what you said: "I would think there's at least microbial life elsewhere, but again, we have no evidence to draw such a conclusion. It's just speculation." So what I draw from this is that you think the possibility of any life is "just speculation" - but given what we know about the universe and the process by which it began and has evolved, there is no logical reason for arguing that there isn't (or hasn't been) any other life of any kind out there. Yes, I know that scientists don't want us to believe anything until they given it their approval, but this one is pretty obvious.
We have no evidence for how life arose out of nothing, or how rare that process is in the universe. It remains a great mystery. There are several competing hypotheses. That's why the panspermia hypothesis has gained increased popularity in recent decades - the origin of life seems like it could be a rare event, so it may have ridden here from another system. Or another galaxy. There is a logical argument to be made that abiogenesis is an exceedingly rare event - which is why the discovery of primitive life in the solar system that did not ride in here on a meteorite or comet would be major news. The evidence would be DNA and/or RNA that does not share genetic material with earth's organisms - a separate origin of life in the solar system. If there are Martians and they share genetic material with us, they either came from here in the past, or life here came from there, or life in both places flew in from another star.

A good scientist doesn't care what people believe or don't believe - he cares about the integrity of the scientific process, formulating hypotheses and testing them. It's the process that gives evidence - not approval - that things probably happen in a certain way, or don't.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:24 PM
 
5,462 posts, read 8,652,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
This is what you said: "I would think there's at least microbial life elsewhere, but again, we have no evidence to draw such a conclusion. It's just speculation." So what I draw from this is that you think the possibility of any life is "just speculation" - but given what we know about the universe and the process by which it began and has evolved, there is no logical reason for arguing that there isn't (or hasn't been) any other life of any kind out there. Yes, I know that scientists don't want us to believe anything until they given it their approval, but this one is pretty obvious.
You need to look at the whole thing that I've said, not just a small part of it. I'll say it again, it is speculation because we do not know for a fact there is life anywhere. We also don't know that there isn't life elsewhere. If there's around in our neck of the galactic woods, it's there's be a higher likelihood that the most abundant is microbial. Although I didn't go on further with that partly because Vasily already covered it, to which I would agree, that the rarest form of life would intelligent life forms, especially those capable of space travel. See Page 2, Post 17. Here's the problem with making statements that declare that there IS life elsewhere as though it's a known fact.

Here's what you said, If you accept everything that we know about the origins and formation of the universe as valid and correct, then it is totally absurd to suggest that for some reason our solar system, and more specifically, our planet, is the one and only place where all of the factors that result in the creation of (intelligent) life have come together. What factors are required for life to emerge in a planet?

We only have the Earth, a single example, as a model for life in the universe. Until we make a conclusive discovery of life beyond the Earth, then it will remain speculative. I can't say if there is or not because I don't know, nor do you, nor does anyone else. That doesn't mean there is no life elsewhere, even intelligent life. It simply means that we don't know the answer to that question. Do you see what I'm saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken S. View Post
Symbolic of what, then? Do you see any paintings of football games or refrigerators? But for some reason these people were able to conceive of people flying in disc-shaped objects etc. Pareidolia is a particularly weak excuse.
Football games? Refrigerators? What are you talking about? Since you seem to be assuming that the image posted by the OP is a disc-shaped flying object with people in it, all I can say is that I honestly don't see any people at all. Where are they suppose to be? What does the thing symbolize? I have no idea, but I think it's a big stretch of the imagination to assume that it's some kind of people-occupied flying disc-shaped object. I'll admit it looks pretty weird though. With regard to symbolism, take a look at the triptych, The Garden of Earthly Delights, painted by Hieronymus Bosch somewhere between 1490 to 1510. Is it an actual representation? Or is it symbolic? Take a look at the Great Spinx in Egypt? Does it represent an actual lion-like animal with a human head? Or is it symbolic? A lot of artists included symbolism in their works. As for pareidolia, while I'm not sure what the thing is, to assume it is the disc-shaped object you mention, pareidolia is a word that comes to mind because it may look like that, but might not be that at all.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,985 posts, read 3,595,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
It could be the space ship that brought Jesus from his home planet.
Jesus was technically a zombie, not an alien.

As for the "ufo" in the picture, it looks like the pull-cord for the blind surround on the window to me.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:18 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 9,032,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
It's not Romanian. The architecture of the church, and the caption underneath, are both Gothic/German.
And there's a visible white line around the disc-like object, makes me think it's photoshopped.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,445 posts, read 12,395,567 times
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I'm more interested in the floating dachsund head in the middle of the painting.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,821 posts, read 4,528,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuitmom View Post
And there's a visible white line around the disc-like object, makes me think it's photoshopped.
Further, if you expand the image, the clarity of the disc-like object is somewhat greater than the clarity of the background, and the greys in the object are darker than the grey surrounding it. I'm also inclined to think this is an object dropped into another image.

A number of UFO sites have posted this, and the claim is that it was snapped by a tourist in Romania. The whole thing smells funny to me.

UFO SIGHTINGS DAILY: UFO Seen In 15th Century Painting From Birthplace Of Dracula, Oct 2014, UFO Sighting News.
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