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I remember listening to her on Art Bell twenty or so years ago. Her group was the first paranormal research team and first generation ghost hunters that I became familiar with. The shows were fascinating. RIP to an amazing lady. Her first name is Lorraine, Elizabeth is running for office.
Lorraine Warren was a con-artist, pure and simple. I believe that she and her husband started off believing their own hokum, and quickly realized that A) most of the people that they dealt with were emotionally disturbed, and B) there was a lot of money to be made in their stories.
That being said, they were charismatic con-artists, and I enjoyed the ride over the years, from the IN SEARCH OF...and THAT'S INCREDIBLE episodes, to the Art Bell/George Nory appearances, right up to the completely fabricated and fraudulent movies.
I did not know that she had passed, and strangely, am genuinely sorry. If there is an afterlife, I sincerely hope that they are in a good place. In a strange way, I guess the world needs con-artists.
Lorraine Warren was a con-artist, pure and simple. I believe that she and her husband started off believing their own hokum, and quickly realized that A) most of the people that they dealt with were emotionally disturbed, and B) there was a lot of money to be made in their stories.
That being said, they were charismatic con-artists, and I enjoyed the ride over the years, from the IN SEARCH OF...and THAT'S INCREDIBLE episodes, to the Art Bell/George Nory appearances, right up to the completely fabricated and fraudulent movies.
I did not know that she had passed, and strangely, am genuinely sorry. If there is an afterlife, I sincerely hope that they are in a good place.
Agreed.
The Warrens were con artists. But they were definitely entertaining. I kind of wanted them to get together with Jack Van Impe. They could have had their own little Justice League of Snake Oil. But it is sad that she has passed, and I hope she is in a better place.
I don't agree with everything that the Warren's believed, however, I do not think they were con artists. They were very conservative Catholics, and I am far from that.
I spoke to Lorraine on the phone for over an hour. She was kind, gentle, knowledgeable and wise. She gave me some advice about the situation, never mentioned money, and offered to visit my house.
She was a good, sincere woman. Rest In Peace, Lorraine Warren,
They claimed that, but they actually tended to associate with the froo-froo fringe sects of Catholicism like the Sedevacantists. Lorraine in particular loved to claim that she and Ed were church-sanctioned exorcists, which was just a bald-faced lie that they used to dupe people into using their "services."
In the Roman Catholic Church, only an ordained priest can be an exorcist, and he must have the express permission of the bishop in order to perform an exorcism --- and those are not easy to obtain. Lay people do sometimes assist in exorcisms --- most reputable exorcists have medical doctors and psychiatrists advising them --- but a lay person would NEVER be permitted to lead an exorcism in the Church.
They claimed that, but they actually tended to associate with the froo-froo fringe sects of Catholicism like the Sedevacantists. Lorraine in particular loved to claim that she and Ed were church-sanctioned exorcists, which was just a bald-faced lie that they used to dupe people into using their "services."
In the Roman Catholic Church, only an ordained priest can be an exorcist, and he must have the express permission of the bishop in order to perform an exorcism --- and those are not easy to obtain. Lay people do sometimes assist in exorcisms --- most reputable exorcists have medical doctors and psychiatrists advising them --- but a lay person would NEVER be permitted to lead an exorcism in the Church.
I did not say they were Roman Catholics. They are other churches and sects that fall under the general umbrella of the word "Catholic" - even by the standards of the RC church, who are not under the See of Rome. This has to do with Apostolic Succession, and adherence to or rejection of, certain creeds - The Apostles Creed, the Nicaean Creed and the Anastasian (sp) Creeds for example.
Even the Roman church recognizes these churches at "Catholic".
Two Protestant denominations are also thought of as "catholic" - The Episcopal church, and the both Lutheran churches. (ELCA and LCMS) Most of the people who attend those churches, do not think of themselves as "catholic" by any stretch of the imagination. However, because of the creeds and Apostolic Succession, the RC church sees them that way.
There is also the Ukrainian Catholic, the Polish Catholic, The Byzantine Catholic and others.
The thing is, the RC church does not get to decide who can and can not perform exorcisms. Pr deliverances. Non Roman Catholic churches can perform their own exorcisms, or deliverances and they sometimes called. The Bible actually says that ALL Christians can perform these rites. The Roman Catholic Church does not get to decide these things for others.
The Warrens were both raised as members of the RC church, and later, joined a more traditional catholic sect, They thought of themselves as Catholics, and so do I.
What in your mind constitutes a "froo froo fringe sect"? Any Christian who is not a member of the Roman church?
I don't agree with everything that the Warren's believed, however, I do not think they were con artists. They were very conservative Catholics, and I am far from that.
I spoke to Lorraine on the phone for over an hour. She was kind, gentle, knowledgeable and wise. She gave me some advice about the situation, never mentioned money, and offered to visit my house. She was a good, sincere woman. Rest In Peace, Lorraine Warren,
Thank you.
Very nice of you.
And I had no idea all that info you gave on Catholics!!! Excellent!
I didn't say you did. I said the Warrens did. And they did. Often and repeatedly, both in interviews and in books with which they cooperated.
I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but in The Demonologist they claim that at the time of its writing there were only seven Church-certified demonologists in the United States, of which Ed Warren was one. Which is just a complete fiction. First of all, there is no such thing as a "Church-certified demonolist" in the Church, and Ed Warren was never one of them. He often claimed he was. But there was no truth to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
They are other churches and sects that fall under the general umbrella of the word "Catholic" - even by the standards of the RC church, who are not under the See of Rome. This has to do with Apostolic Succession, and adherence to or rejection of, certain creeds - The Apostles Creed, the Nicaean Creed and the Anastasian (sp) Creeds for example.
Even the Roman church recognizes these churches at "Catholic".
Two Protestant denominations are also thought of as "catholic" - The Episcopal church, and the both Lutheran churches. (ELCA and LCMS) Most of the people who attend those churches, do not think of themselves as "catholic" by any stretch of the imagination. However, because of the creeds and Apostolic Succession, the RC church sees them that way.
You are correct, and you make a fine point. Strictly speaking, the term "catholic" simply means "universal" and can be applied to many faiths.
But here in the U.S., when people claim to be "Catholic," then it is generally understood that they mean the Roman Catholic Church. The Warrens often used this tactic to lead people to believe something that wasn't true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
The thing is, the RC church does not get to decide who can and can not perform exorcisms. Pr deliverances. Non Roman Catholic churches can perform their own exorcisms, or deliverances and they sometimes called. The Bible actually says that ALL Christians can perform these rites. The Roman Catholic Church does not get to decide these things for others.
Again, a fair point, but that is not what the Warrens claimed or consistently represented themselves. The Roman Catholic Church has no say over whether or not Evangelicals, Jews, Muslims, or pompadored televangelists perform their own exorcists.
But within the Church itself --- the Church that the Warrens misled people into believing they represented --- there are VERY strict guidelines for who can and cannot perform an exorcism and under what conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
What in your mind constitutes a "froo froo fringe sect"?
Well, the sedevancantists for one. I could name others, but this is not the Religion forum.
Last edited by Mark S.; 05-08-2019 at 10:20 AM..
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Solly says — Be nice!
