Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
VERY dangerous subject. Please re-read TOS BEFORE posting. There is ZERO tolerance to bigotry, racism, or any form of discrimination on this forum.
If this strays into hate speech, or a platform for vilifying any race, religion, or group it will be shut down and infractions given. If you do not know what hate speech is here's a Wiki article Hate speech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for a headstarter here is the ICCPR definition
Quote:
"any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law"
If it just becomes inflamed or tit-for-tat the thread will be summarily closed, if I just feel irritated by the thread it will be summarily closed.
I don't believe its blown out of proportion at all, segregation between Muslims and non-muslims is a huge issue that cannot be simply ignored...
While I agree with you that segregation and 'parallel lives' is a problem, I never said it wasn't. I was responding to the question about extremism.
Quote:
the issue should be why are so many young British Muslims are been radicalised and to an even greater extent those that support radical Islam this is not a small problem that is blown out of proportion.
The discussion about this issue is wholly disproportionate to the actual number of murders or acts of terrorism carried out by British Muslims. The numbers killed by these acts were 52 in the London bombings, and Lee Rigby more recently. (53 in total) There are over 750 murders in the UK each year to all causes; clearly Islamic extremism accounts for a miniscule proportion of that total. The numbers of extremists involved in acts which have been carried out or foiled by the security services is less than 30 people in more than a decade. Even if we're very pessimistic and presume that for every bomber there are 100 more who support the bombers actions, that's still only 3000 people. That pales into insignificance compared to the major social issues challenging the country, like child poverty, growing income inequality and an ageing population. Yet this single issue has dominated political and media agenda's for the last decade. This is not to diminish in any way the seriousness of the problem, but I stand by my argument that the issue is blown entirely out of proportion.
Quote:
In the UK many Muslims are shouting barbaric beliefs that nothing is been done in the name of "tolerance", non muslims dare not speak up, islamophobia and islamophobic crimes exist for sure.
Groups like the EDL who voice against sharia law in the UK attracts many non muslims that are frustrated, angry and feel like they cannot speak out alone without been labelled such as a "racist".
The EDL are intellectual vacuums. Their ranks are made up of former football hooligans who struggle to comprehend the complex world they inhabit. This guy should be made spokesman for the organisation:
All I am going to say is that I am fed up with Muslims coming into our country and walking all over us.
One prime example is those Muslims who burn the UJ.
I guess you want Britain to be about British! Enough of the Muslamic Iraqi law trampling you down you poor thing!
In East London, there is a big muslim community. The relations are OK but there are groups who wanted to make it a Sharia Law controlled zone, nobody really does much to stop it, but there isn't much tension racially. This in my area though, in Tower Hamlets you would be lucky to be there without being confronted or unscathed if you're white.
While I agree with you that segregation and 'parallel lives' is a problem, I never said it wasn't. I was responding to the question about extremism.
Ok fair do's I read your message and thought you were were referring to both extremism and segregation but either way I disagree with you that extremism isn't blown out of proportion.
Quote:
The discussion about this issue is wholly disproportionate to the actual number of murders or acts of terrorism carried out by British Muslims. The numbers killed by these acts were 52 in the London bombings, and Lee Rigby more recently. (53 in total) There are over 750 murders in the UK each year to all causes; clearly Islamic extremism accounts for a miniscule proportion of that total. The numbers of extremists involved in acts which have been carried out or foiled by the security services is less than 30 people in more than a decade. Even if we're very pessimistic and presume that for every bomber there are 100 more who support the bombers actions, that's still only 3000 people. That pales into insignificance compared to the major social issues challenging the country, like child poverty, growing income inequality and an ageing population. Yet this single issue has dominated political and media agenda's for the last decade. This is not to diminish in any way the seriousness of the problem, but I stand by my argument that the issue is blown entirely out of proportion.
The issue is not just about the radicals that have gone out to be violent I believe the problem is the countering of Islamist radicalisation and more worryingly it seems the government has no answer to tackle this. With radical groups that are openly preaching hate and the government not stepping in they need to look at the process of radicalisation and not wait for radicals to become violent such as the Lee Rigby incident. A need to look for any forms of radicalisation such as Mosques, Islamic centres and Islamic communities before they are radicalised into potential killers.
Quote:
The EDL are intellectual vacuums. Their ranks are made up of former football hooligans who struggle to comprehend the complex world they inhabit. This guy should be made spokesman for the organisation:
The EDL is now a very large organisation which provides a platform for people to speak that they feel they couldn't do alone and get their voice heard. Of course an organisation like EDL and its agenda will attract hooligans and racists but I honestly believe the media put the EDL in such a negative light to show that they are some unorganised hooligan racist group that are out to cause trouble. Yet there are many different races within the EDL such as a large Indian following but the media wouldn't point this out.
Its ok saying oh the EDL are this and that but if people were not so scared to speak up and voice their concerns in their own communities then there would be no need for the EDL in the first place.
When a group of people of different nationalities, race, and backgrounds all commit acts of murder and proudly proclaim they do this in the name of Allah and their Islamic faith, there is a problem. Radicalization in Islam doesn't happen to some loner sitting in a dark room reading extremist sites online. They get started at their mosque. They don't necessarily preach such hatred openly to everyone, they get the more impressionable ones who are filled with righteous fury and indignation and use this to speak to them about being a holy warrior or martyr. They're given websites to look for research, and the boulder has been set in motion that they hope will ultimately lead to a landslide. When you have groups of men patrolling and threatening people in the street for violating Sharia Law, you really have a problem that goes beyond a few radicals. These are organized groups who are confident in their power and belief that they will openly and publicly commit such acts. The more the government and news people try to cower towards this group out of fear of offending, the more power you allow them to take from your position of weakness. If there is such a large number of peaceful moderate Muslims in these communities, wouldn't they have put a stop to the Sharia law patrols?
Ok fair do's I read your message and thought you were were referring to both extremism and segregation but either way I disagree with you that extremism isn't blown out of proportion.
That's ok, perhaps I ought to have been clearer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pettyhate
The issue is not just about the radicals that have gone out to be violent I believe the problem is the countering of Islamist radicalisation and more worryingly it seems the government has no answer to tackle this. With radical groups that are openly preaching hate and the government not stepping in they need to look at the process of radicalisation and not wait for radicals to become violent such as the Lee Rigby incident. A need to look for any forms of radicalisation such as Mosques, Islamic centres and Islamic communities before they are radicalised into potential killers.
I spent about a year fruitlessly arguing on a forum called 'Islamic Awakening'. A significant proportion, if not an outright majority, of the members of that place are British Muslims, and conform to what I'm sure you would consider to be a 'radical' persuasion. Like all the far-right movements in every part of the world throughout history, they are united by only one thing. They believe that they are under attack. They believe that there is a war on Islam being waged by the West, and that the majority of Muslims are 'blind' to this war.
In support of their theory they point to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq to spread 'democracy', and the roughly 1 million dead Muslims in those places. They point to the failure of the West to intervene in Bosnia before the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. They point to Britain's (and by extension the West's) support of Israel in spite of the fact Israel has breached more UN resolutions than Iran has ever done. They point to the double standards of journalists when (as an example) the murder of Lee Rigby is a national news story which dominates headlines for days, but the similar murder of pensioner Mohammed Saleem (who??) in Birmingham for no reason other than that he was a Muslim barely gets reported. They point to the UK breaking its own laws through complicity in extraordinary rendition, effectively sanctioning the torture of Muslims. (And it is always Muslims.) They point to British (and more broadly) Western support of dictatorships in the Middle East, such as in Saudi Arabia or Oman. In their mind, this is the West acting to halt the rise of a new Caliphate.
You cannot understand Islamic extremism, or indeed any far-right political movement (including the EDL) without first understanding that the only gel which holds these people together is their fear that they are collectively under attack. Forget any notion that you have that these guys are bound together by some mysterious religious bond. Their hatred of the 'West' is completely eclipsed by their hatred of Muslims who disagree that they're under attack. (As they put it - "Coconuts".)
People do not become Islamic extremists because they get mesmerised by some goof who reads selected verses from the Qu'ran to them. They become Islamic extremists because of political realities which lead them to believe they are under attack.
Quote:
The EDL is now a very large organisation which provides a platform for people to speak that they feel they couldn't do alone and get their voice heard. Of course an organisation like EDL and its agenda will attract hooligans and racists but I honestly believe the media put the EDL in such a negative light to show that they are some unorganised hooligan racist group that are out to cause trouble. Yet there are many different races within the EDL such as a large Indian following but the media wouldn't point this out.
Its ok saying oh the EDL are this and that but if people were not so scared to speak up and voice their concerns in their own communities then there would be no need for the EDL in the first place.
The EDL are the other face of the same coin as the Islamic extremists. They erroneously believe that they are collectively under attack by Muslims, and so the morons from both sides feed off each other. The EDL organise a march in Bradford believing themselves to be under attack for all the fanciful reasons mentioned by 'victimofGM' in the post prior to this. The Islamic extremists then believe that they're under attack because they've got a hundreds of skinheads with placards reading 'Muslim's out' walking through their hometown, and plot to set off a bomb to kill them. Then some EDL influenced nutter in Norway decides the appropriate response to all this is to shoot up an island of teenagers.
What you end up with is much ado about nothing. A conflict that exists for no reason other than that idiot right-wingers, whether they be Islamic extremists or the EDL, can't understand the complex world that they live in, and so reduce political issues to 'us versus them'. This sad state of affairs has always and will always exist, because it is a facet of human nature. The only thing that can be done is for sensible people to stand up against it, and if I say so myself, that is what I'm doing and will continue to do.
While I agree with you that segregation and 'parallel lives' is a problem, I never said it wasn't. I was responding to the question about extremism.
The discussion about this issue is wholly disproportionate to the actual number of murders or acts of terrorism carried out by British Muslims. The numbers killed by these acts were 52 in the London bombings, and Lee Rigby more recently. (53 in total) There are over 750 murders in the UK each year to all causes; clearly Islamic extremism accounts for a miniscule proportion of that total. The numbers of extremists involved in acts which have been carried out or foiled by the security services is less than 30 people in more than a decade. Even if we're very pessimistic and presume that for every bomber there are 100 more who support the bombers actions, that's still only 3000 people. That pales into insignificance compared to the major social issues challenging the country, like child poverty, growing income inequality and an ageing population. Yet this single issue has dominated political and media agenda's for the last decade. This is not to diminish in any way the seriousness of the problem, but I stand by my argument that the issue is blown entirely out of proportion.
The EDL are intellectual vacuums. Their ranks are made up of former football hooligans who struggle to comprehend the complex world they inhabit. This guy should be made spokesman for the organisation:
Good post. I would like to add the EDL (and the BNP) to the "things I hate about the UK" thread. Unfortunately, idiots like the guy in the clip are too common. The responses you're getting on this thread are deeply troubling/almost baffling right?!..
It Britain as well as the US is seems the homegrown Muslims, are (loss of a better word) Ultra-Muslim compared to either Muslims who have emigrated or Muslims in Arab countries. I have been breaking fast with Arab Muslim friends all week and I'm Jewish. We've been friends for decades and most of our conversations that have been religion based look for the similarities of the Hadith to the Talmud.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
