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Allan, first of all, I want to say there is no one here, especially British people, having a go at Americans, and their right to bear arms. That has nothing to do with us as foreigners. The conversation just drifted to open carry, and why anyone would do that at say, a BLM march or in a supermarket. It just seems a curious thing to do, to us as foreigners.
I believe you are right, in the fact most everyone now has a phone, which they can record many things that in the past were not. We here, like to gab about things happening here in the UK, and occasionally drift into things American......... You are very interesting people is all......... we don't mean any offence.
Dave - it's a curious thing to me too and I live in the US. The gun issue in the US is terrible to be honest. A large percent of the right wing believes Obama is going to take their guns and it freaks them out. I see people with guns in holsters in plain sight walking down the street of my large American city(Milwaukee). It's unnerving. In very safe neighborhoods I might add. They arm themselves in very safe secure suburbs, where there is almost no crime, to protect themselves against a foe which will never arrive. They will ride motorcycles with no helmets, smoke cigs, no safety belt in a car, be 40 overweight, but will worry about a one in a million encounter.
The bigger problem is the 300 million guns floating around. Seldom is a gun used in a situation where a criminal is stopped or a wild dangerous animal is put down. Most often the results are suicide, accidents, theft of gun, used in anger, etc..... The right wing won't even agree to the most basic changes such as universal background checks or banning of automatic weapons. It's really a sad situation resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Seldom is a gun used in a situation where a criminal is stopped or a wild dangerous animal is put down. Most often the results are suicide, accidents, theft of gun, used in anger, etc..... The right wing won't even agree to the most basic changes such as universal background checks or banning of automatic weapons.
Guns are used to prevent/end crimes every day, and automatic weapons have been essentially banned for decades.
The problem is that politicians want to target non-criminal gun owners instead of street criminals who commit most murders. Former President Carter's anti-gun press secretary famously warned Bill Clinton when he became president and wanted to tackle gun control:
Quote:
“As much as I hate to say it, the NRA is effective primarily because it is largely right when it claims that most gun control laws inconvenience and threaten the law-abiding while having little or no impact on violent crime or criminals. I support registration in principle. But two questions need to be asked. Are the people causing the problem going to comply voluntarily? If not, do you have a way to effectively enforce compliance? If the answer is ‘no’ in both cases, consider whether the benefits are worth making Bob Dole majority leader.”
Guns are used to prevent/end crimes every day, and automatic weapons have been essentially banned for decades.
The problem is that politicians want to target non-criminal gun owners instead of street criminals who commit most murders. Former President Carter's anti-gun press secretary famously warned Bill Clinton when he became president and wanted to tackle gun control:
It is possible to get an automatic weapon in the US, if you really want to..
For every crime stopped by a gun, there are many more suicides, accidents, thefts of guns, used in poor judgement, children getting hold of them, having the weapon on you while drinking, used against a girlfriend, wife, husband in a fit of rage, used in criminal activity and on and on.
For every crime guns stop I would bet at a minimum 20 deaths by guns in the above mentioned and I'm being generous here. In reality it's more in the neighborhood of 50 to 1.
Guns do not make us any safer - at all. Check out murder rates in any Western European nation or advanced Asian nation. It's not even close.
Dave - it's a curious thing to me too and I live in the US. The gun issue in the US is terrible to be honest. A large percent of the right wing believes Obama is going to take their guns and it freaks them out. I see people with guns in holsters in plain sight walking down the street of my large American city(Milwaukee). It's unnerving. In very safe neighborhoods I might add. They arm themselves in very safe secure suburbs, where there is almost no crime, to protect themselves against a foe which will never arrive. They will ride motorcycles with no helmets, smoke cigs, no safety belt in a car, be 40 overweight, but will worry about a one in a million encounter.
The bigger problem is the 300 million guns floating around. Seldom is a gun used in a situation where a criminal is stopped or a wild dangerous animal is put down. Most often the results are suicide, accidents, theft of gun, used in anger, etc..... The right wing won't even agree to the most basic changes such as universal background checks or banning of automatic weapons. It's really a sad situation resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people.
An American friend of mine, who used to live in Las Vegas, told me a tale of a party she held at her house for New Years. She noticed one of her guests had a gun under his coat. She approached him, and asked what he was doing bringing a gun to her house, as a party guest. It turned out he had two........
Now, guns are fascinating things...... when I was in the army 40 years ago, I handled and fired lots of different weapons, and they're very tactile..... Most people here have never even seen a real gun. I have, and know what a thrill they can give firing them on ranges. My son, on a visit to Las Vegas on honeymoon, couldn't wait to go to a place that let folks fire guns for a fee. He couldn't stop talking about it when he got home.
Why do some people fear President Obama will have their guns taken away? How could that be when they have the right to own guns? Their fears seem totally irrational. I am glad we're not allowed to own guns here in the UK. We have our own share of crazies that sure don't need guns to make the problems they cause worse!! I am happy enough with my American bought miniature baseball bat, which leans against the wall in my bedroom.........
The people in those photos who are walking around with rifles/shotguns are entirely about making a statement in reaction to the wave of anti-gun rhetoric and threats being made to their constitutional right to protect themselves with firearms that has ramped up dramatically in the last few years. Those people are essentially protestors, not unhinged lunatics fearing that they may get into a firefight at the supermarket.
10-20 years ago such a sight would have been unthinkable as there was very little debate about stripping the constitution. Furthermore, even today 99% of Americans have probably never even seen anyone but a policeman armed with a gun in public. It is your media that is selectively portraying images like this to make Americans look like a bunch of borderline murderous nutters.
When people have serious concerns about personal security, whether warranted or not, they tend to get concealed carry permits and carry a small, effective handgun, not an AK-47 like that trilby sporting dweeb in the photos.
I am much more afraid of the guy hiding an illegally obtained, unregistered firearm in his waistband which is the only kind of gun carrying that occurs in Britain and Europe for the most part.
It is possible to get an automatic weapon in the US, if you really want to..
It's nearly impossible. There are extensive licensing and background check requirements and then you pay tens of thousands of dollars for an ancient firearm that nobody uses in crimes in America in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Trafton
Guns do not make us any safer - at all. Check out murder rates in any Western European nation or advanced Asian nation. It's not even close.
The demographics are so different that they aren't even worth considering. There are countries with loose gun laws that have very little gun crime and there are nations with restrictive gun laws that have extremely high murder rates.
Anyway, there's no reasonable way of removing guns from the hands of criminals or law abiders alike.
Why do some people fear President Obama will have their guns taken away? How could that be when they have the right to own guns? Their fears seem totally irrational.
The president and Hillary Clinton repeatedly point to Australia as an example of "common sense" gun laws while neglecting to explain that it was a mass confiscation of firearms. They also neglect to mention that it wasn't much of a success and many of the guns disappeared into the black market or were not turned in.
Most Americans don't expect a president to take away all of their guns, but most of their guns (semiautomatic rifles, handguns, etc.). Americans could be restricted to a single, single-shot derringer with ammo priced at $100 per round and technically not be deprived of their constitutional right to bear arms.
The thing that frustrates gun owners is that all of the new legislation targets and affects them while doing nothing to reduce gun crimes and the criminals who already carry and use firearms illegally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
I am glad we're not allowed to own guns here in the UK.
I've met quite a few of your countrymen at pubs who have admitted to owning firearms after a few pints.
I've met quite a few of your countrymen at pubs who have admitted to owning firearms after a few pints.
You have? Gordon Bennett - which pubs are you going in?......... I have never known anyone in my life owning up to owning a gun. Beyond, shotguns of course. Quite a number of people have a licence to own such a weapon. Generally farmer types, and some people who like skeet shooting. If you don't have a criminal record, you can apply for a shotgun licence. I think it's quite unusual though, because you have to pass security tests on the weapon's secure storage. Most people can't be bothered with that.
You have? Gordon Bennett - which pubs are you going in?
Nice little places in Bath, Cheltenham and Oxford. They were mainly older guys with shotguns and rifles under their beds and in their closets, but there were a few winks involved, so I have a feeling they weren't licensed.
I have never seen anyone open carrying here in Texas, and the odds are you tourists never will anyway.
Not coming here because somebody posts a couple of pictures of something you'll never see? lol.... whatever.
I went to Knoxville with some American friends with a view to investing in some land there. The realtor pointed to some land in the distance, as he raised his arm we could see that he had a weapon in a shoulder holster.
When we asked him why he was armed, he said that many people in Tennessee carried concealed weapons, even taking them into bars and restaurants. He said he also had a gun in his SUV.
We decided not to invest in a place where people were obviously so frightened that they had decided to arm themselves just to go about their everyday business. I don't think that there's anything to "lol" about.
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You are very interesting people is all......... we don't mean any offence.