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Freedom of movement is a fundamental part of being in the EU for EU citizens, this is not causing the problems you are reacting against.
It’s not EU citizens overrunning the UK, it’s ousiders who have entered either illegally or after claiming asylum in another country and then heading to the UK due to the open welcome they get from the looney left councils.
The uks not even a member of the Schengen Agreement so could easily turn away most of these arrivals but chooses not to.
Italy is refusing to take anymore imigrants, the Uk could say the same but won’t.
The UKs problems are their own making, giving out houses and benefits like there’s no tomorrow is ridiculous and will only draw in more and more people.
Brexit won’t stop this
Other countries in the EU don’t have the same issues because immigrants don’t have the handouts anywhere else at least not on the scale of the UK.
And talk of civil war is plain daft.
And for those convinced the Uks leaving at the end of March the following was in the papers the other day and really sums up what your up against.
The votes they managed to overturn
2001 – The Irish rejected the EU's Nice treaty by 54-46. The following year Ireland voted to accept it by 63-37 after receiving 'reassurances' from Brussels, particularly on defence
2005 – France and the Netherlands rejected the EU Constitution treaty. The proposals were repackaged as the Lisbon Treaty, which was passed without a poll in either country
2008 – Ireland rejects the Lisbon Treaty by 53-47. The following year Dublin caves in to pressure from Brussels to hold a second poll, which backs treaty 67-33
2015 – Greeks reject terms of an EU austerity package by 61-39. Greek leaders and EU ignore result and push cuts through
We have been badly led for many decades. Politicians of all parties have sold us out. Why, I still don't understand, but the immigration we have suffered from is not us alone. France and Germany especially have allowed Muslim immigration to levels that has led us to were we are today. Dangerous fanatics among them, who mean us harm. Whoever we voted for, we got more of the same. They are a festering menace in the background, with many being watched by our security forces.
But on top of that, this last 20 years or so, we have had unlimited immigration from the EU. Tony Blair opened the floodgates, and come they did. I hasten to add the Polish people have been mainly decent people, who just want to work hard, and make a living. We have also received immigrants from countries like Romania and Bulgaria. Some decent people, but also Roma gypsies who are of no use to us, or anybody else. Gangs of pickpockets flying in for the day, then out again. The police in London have their hands full with this, and much else. Gangs of black youth murdering each other, and many other problems, most of which are self inflicted on us by governments going back decades.
For some reason I fail to understand, we also have much immigration from outside the EU. So called refugees, in reality mainly economic migrants coming to take advantage of the British taxpayer. It is a poisonous brew simmering away. You think I exaggerate on my fears of riots, and even an eventual civil war? You think it can't happen here? Well I don't agree, and if present policies continue, then I believe real unrest is more than possible, but very likely.
There is little ordinary people think they can do except vote. The problem is, voting doesn't seem to make much difference, and people get angry and dispirited. Well, this time, the politicians were stupid enough to give folks a vote on one issue, with one question. Stay or leave the EU? We voted to leave. The politicians were astonished, they truly didn't see it coming. Neither did the international money people, as we saw with the reaction against the pound.
Now, some of them think enough time has passed, and they can try fooling the voters into changing their minds. Some of them don't seem to grasp the anger here among the so called silent majority. These aren't the kiddies screaming and crying, and stamping their little foot. They are watching all this quietly, but with real anger, especially towards the EU, and their attitude. This anger will spill over if another vote is called. It won't be pretty, and politicans quietly know this.
We know fully well that the EU doesn't take no for an answer. This is proven by what is going on right now. But, they haven't had the brains to curb their disdain. The French President couldn't contain himself the other day. But not all the cards are in their hands. It won't be just us hurt by what they have planned for us. This is not a vote on a treaty, were they can browbeat the population of a country. This is different, and they don't seem to understand the anger. This is about the entire future direction of my country. We will leave the EU. It will happen. Because it doesn't suit your agenda doesn't mean we will remain.
Well, this time, the politicians were stupid enough to give folks a vote on one issue, with one question. Stay or leave the EU? We voted to leave
This was a very simple question, the reality is way more complicated as we are seeing now.
I feel your frustration and things need to be done to address the issues you and many people in the uk and beyond are experiencing.
It’s not really an agenda I have for the UK staying, I genuinely believe the UK gets more out of being in the EU than most people are told or understand and believe the EU is better for having the UK on board.
I’ve work for Land Rover in the past and see the need for a smooth flowing supply chain and any mess at boarders for parts will put people out of work,not only in Land Rover and the car industry but also the many other companies working with suppliers all over Europe and who work with the just in time model for their supplies.
I see the benefits of free movement of EU citizens who can move around the EU and start a business or live in any EU country they want, I live in Spain and have a great business and life thanks to the EU, I would dread to think that that door would be closed to the younger generation of Brit’s who would love to chase their dreams.
I would love to see a closer union where things are equal in all countries of the EU like the removal of zero hour contracts in the UK and the same tax rates through each country to avoid the larger companies playing the system and base themselves where they pay little or no tax at the expense of the rest of us.
I also see we are stronger together, when you look around the world today with Russia, China and the USA, all out for their own interests, properly united, Europe is larger, wealthier and as strong as any of the superpowers kicking us around individually, they would all rejoice at Brexit to devide and conquer.
It’s all too easy to lash out at the EU for things not going the way people want or expect.
If you are right and I’m wrong and Brexit comes about, we all lose.
Last edited by britinspain; 09-23-2018 at 02:08 AM..
This was a very simple question, the reality is way more complicated as we are seeing now.
I feel your frustration and things need to be done to address the issues you and many people in the uk and beyond are experiencing.
It’s not really an agenda I have for the UK staying, I genuinely believe the UK gets more out of being in the EU than most people are told or understand and believe the EU is better for having the UK on board.
I’ve work for Land Rover in the past and see the need for smooth flowing supply chain and any mess at boarders for parts will put people out of work,not only in Land Rover and the car industry but also the many other companies working with suppliers all over Europe and who work with the just in time model of supplies.
I see the benefits of free movement of EU citizens who can move around the EU and start a business or live in any EU country they want, I live in Spain and have a great business and life thanks to the EU, I would dread to think that that door would be closed to the younger generation of Brit’s who would love to chase their dreams.
I would love to see a closer union where things are equal in all countries of the EU like the removal of zero hour contracts in the UK and the same tax rates through each country to avoid the larger companies playing the system and base themselves where they pay little or no tax at the expense of the rest of us.
I also see we are stronger together, when you look around the world today with Russia, China and the USA, all out for their own interests, properly united Europe is larger, wealthier and as strong as any of the superpowers kicking us around individually, they would all rejoice at Brexit to devide and conquer.
It’s all too easy to lash out at the EU for things not going the way people want or expect.
If you are right and I’m wrong and Brexit comes about, we all lose.
You see the advantages of free movement around the EU? It all depends who is moving, and to where. We have received many good people, but also Europe's dregs. Not just gypsies. but East European criminals running prostitution rackets, and other criminal enterprises.
You don't seem to grasp we are struggling to cope with this influx. There are not enough houses, and people are living in unsanitary overcrowded conditions. Rents have soared beyond the reach of many ordinary British people. Our schools are struggling with children arriving with no English skills at all. Our NHS struggling to deal with literally millions of foreigners. All wanting a doctor, a dentist, and health care for those who can't get it in their own countries.
We could build millions of homes, and even more would come to fill them. We have to get a grip on this situation, and the EU refuses to listen. All we get is the same noise. The four pillars..... the four pillars.... We are sick to the back teeth of it.
You say business is going to be damaged. Well, the EU will ensure that is done. We were never going to get a good trade deal from them. It just was not going to happen. So what are we supposed to do? Just carry on with unlimited immigration. A population of these islands of 70million? 80million? Just when will it be too many? We are heading for civil unrest. What good will the 'just in time' model do us then?
You say we benefit from EU membership more than we realise? What...... you mean some of our own money ends up coming back here to be spent? What about all our money that goes to the takers of the EU? The Bulgarias, the Romanias, and the Polands?
We have to leave because the EU refuse to listen to our concerns on immigration. They dismissed us. Well, we don't take kindly to being dismissed.You think another vote is in the bag for remain? Don't be so sure.
Drop the benefits and the influx will drop to a trickle, they bypass Spain totally.
I watched the Guadia Civil 3 nights on the row trying to catch boatfulls of illegals landing on the beaches here last month, they will be around Calais by now, nothing in Spain for them unless they like the weather and want to sell handbags on the beach.
Criminals should not be allowed to travel for years if ever, it’s better the Romanian police deal with Romanian criminals which goes for each EU country.
Brexit isn’t going to takeaway any of your problems , it’s just going to add to them.
This was a very simple question, the reality is way more complicated as we are seeing now.
I feel your frustration and things need to be done to address the issues you and many people in the uk and beyond are experiencing.
It’s not really an agenda I have for the UK staying, I genuinely believe the UK gets more out of being in the EU than most people are told or understand and believe the EU is better for having the UK on board.
I’ve work for Land Rover in the past and see the need for a smooth flowing supply chain and any mess at boarders for parts will put people out of work,not only in Land Rover and the car industry but also the many other companies working with suppliers all over Europe and who work with the just in time model for their supplies.
I see the benefits of free movement of EU citizens who can move around the EU and start a business or live in any EU country they want, I live in Spain and have a great business and life thanks to the EU, I would dread to think that that door would be closed to the younger generation of Brit’s who would love to chase their dreams.
I would love to see a closer union where things are equal in all countries of the EU like the removal of zero hour contracts in the UK and the same tax rates through each country to avoid the larger companies playing the system and base themselves where they pay little or no tax at the expense of the rest of us.
I also see we are stronger together, when you look around the world today with Russia, China and the USA, all out for their own interests, properly united, Europe is larger, wealthier and as strong as any of the superpowers kicking us around individually, they would all rejoice at Brexit to devide and conquer.
It’s all too easy to lash out at the EU for things not going the way people want or expect.
If you are right and I’m wrong and Brexit comes about, we all lose.
Funny how Samsung (South Korea) ships millions of components worth billions of dollars to China, to ensure Foxconn can supply millions of iPhones, Android phones, TV Boxes, TVs, Game Consoles, etc. Without any issues. You ever hear of an iPhone launch delayed because of import issues at the EU border?
Further most manufactured goods in Europe rely on imports from the Rest of the World, like steel from India, or electronics from China, South Korea or Japan. Never seen a lack of Ffyfes bananas in stores (predominantly from the Caribbean) either.
The issue with the EU is that it appears that some countries believe it's their destiny to rule Europe for their betterment. Some believe it's a source of income, some it's for mutual benefit and cooperation. You can determine for yourselves which countries fit into which categories. However most are in Europe for their own purposes and everyone else there be damned. So it's a microcosm of the international picture, and therefore doomed from the get go, because as soon as one of the countries benefits are less than that countries perceived costs it's going to bail and that includes France and Germany who are developing some not insignificant anti-Euro sentiment.
You'd need an entirely different perspective and underpinning in Europe to make the EU more permanent. It started as a set of free trade agreements and that's why it's doomed to fail.
Drop the benefits and the influx will drop to a trickle, they bypass Spain totally.
I watched the Guadia Civil 3 nights on the row trying to catch boatfulls of illegals landing on the beaches here last month, they will be around Calais by now, nothing in Spain for them unless they like the weather and want to sell handbags on the beach.
Criminals should not be allowed to travel for years if ever, it’s better the Romanian police deal with Romanian criminals which goes for each EU country.
Brexit isn’t going to takeaway any of your problems , it’s just going to add to them.
We're in a mess whatever we do. But I will never vote for continued unlimited immigration. I won't sit back comfy in my paid for house, going on my foreign holidays, and ignore what's going on all around me. All I have is a vote.
Have you ever seen a film called 'Soylent Green'? It was made in the early 70s, and showed a world destroyed by pollution. Folks living on the streets, and only the privileged having even a roof over their heads. The younger people of that time only knew this way of living. An old guy in the movie was played by Edward G Robinson.
The government wanted rid of all these old people who had memories of when things were different. They remembered clean water, and green fields. When an old person had enough of this living hell, they could go to a certain building to die. Edward G decided to do this. He was strapped to a bed, and given poison. But, before he died, he was shown a film on a huge screen of life as it was when he was young. He lay there dying, and looking at the world of his youth.
Another character played by Charlton Heston had made his way there to try and stop the suicide. He went into the room Edward G was dying in, and he saw the film. He realised everything he had been told by Edward G was true. The world he had described actually really did exist.
I feel this is what we're dealing with the young of Britain today. They have been brought up hearing the mantras, 'the EU is of benefit to us all.' 'Multiculturism and diversity is good.' 'Being packed like sardines, and paying through the nose for a season ticket on trains is normal.' 'Being unable to afford a home is your own fault. Work harder.' 'Being surrounded by foreigners who wish us harm has always been so.' Just stare at your phone all day, and don't think for yourself. Just obey Big Brother. This is where we're at in this country. Stupid young people who think an education makes them intelligent. Older people who just look on in amazement and despair. The kids just don't know any better, or any different.
But, as in America, many have had enough. The powers that be, thought, give 'em a vote to shut them up on the EU once and for all. We'll scare 'em to death, and they'll vote as we say. Get some bankers to scare 'em, and even the American President. Icing on the cake, get the Chancellor of the Exchequer to threaten an immediate budget if they vote leave, and tell 'em the country will collapse.
They did all that, and we still voted to leave. Now, the EU is twisting the knife, and trying to force another vote. You think it's in the bag for remain? I don't, and what we will see on the streets won't be pretty.
I was in the UK the day after the initial vote and spoke with many people, I came back with a good idea of why people voted to leave.
Mostly older people hankered for the past and by voting to leave they hoped everything would go back to the way they rembereed much like the film you mentioned.
Younger people some of my family included hated foreigners plain and simple and again hoped that by voting leave it would rid themselves of the foreigners they so despise.
Many voted out of protest because they were being told by the polls and the papers the vote was a certain stay and they wanted to rebel if just a little.
The common theme was everyone was shocked by the result of the vote back then and the common theme today is that even if they get Brexit none of them will get what they voted for on the day.
I was in the UK the day after the initial vote and spoke with many people, I came back with a good idea of why people voted to leave.
Mostly older people hankered for the past and by voting to leave they hoped everything would go back to the way they rembereed much like the film you mentioned.
Younger people some of my family included hated foreigners plain and simple and again hoped that by voting leave it would rid themselves of the foreigners they so despise.
Many voted out of protest because they were being told by the polls and the papers the vote was a certain stay and they wanted to rebel if just a little.
The common theme was everyone was shocked by the result of the vote back then and the common theme today is that even if they get Brexit none of them will get what they voted for on the day.
I wasn't shocked by the vote result. Go read my posts in Brexit threads back before the vote. Older people didn't vote hankering for the past. They voted to try and stop things getting any worse. We need to build homes, by the million for the people already on this small island. How can we do that, if doing so attracts even more immigrants? Build until there is no open land left? Is that your answer? The population of this island keep increasing until we have civil unrest? What is your answer?
Many young people feel they are ignored, and their problems minimised. Like the young people of my time, they want a job, and a home of their own. They want money in their pocket to have some good times, and to provide for their families.
Don't you think they are angry when they see foreigners taking advantage of everything built in this country for many decades, especially since the war? Did those men who fought for this country do it in vain? So we can be invaded in everything but name? You think this is the ancient past? Some of those people are still with us.
We have to make a stand, and show the EU they cannot frighten us, and we will survive whatever they do, or throw at us. We will make a note of those who try to do us harm, and won't forget it. The EU has always had its way in the past, and has got arrogant. The unelected officials in charge cannot hide that arrogance. We need to be free of them for good.
Immigration isn’t going to stop in the event of Brexit!
The people you have already there are not going to leave in the event of a Brexit!
The EU have not created or are responsible for any of your problems!
I’ve also given you a couple of solutions to stop more coming but you’ve ignored that too
First we have Brexit, and stop unlimited immigration from the EU. We pick and chose who we need for our economy by visa.
Once free of EU rules, we can make our own. No access to council waiting lists for foreigners. Start building homes for the people here, for rents that folks can actually afford. Citizens first before foreigners. Benefits have to be given now the same as citizens. We change the rules for foreigners. If they don't have a job after a certain period of time, benefits stop. No more benefits for children outside the country.
Immigration from outside the EU - an investigation to find out who and why. No more phoney students from Africa, and other places. Refugee family reunions........ go back home, and rejoin there.
If things get real difficult after Brexit, many of the EU immigrants will self deport. I am fully aware of just how difficult it may get. We still have to push on, for the sake of generations yet unborn.
How's that for ya?
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