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Old 11-15-2011, 11:08 AM
nei nei started this thread nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
Plenty of places started out as remote suburbs and were later annexed into a city. If their overall function (residential neighborhood) doesn't change, at what point does it stop being a suburb?
I'm not really sure. But if you can count residential neighborhoods of cities as suburbs, even high density ones, than all of a city except the center could be counted as a suburb.

The neighborhood posted was high density (probably would be near the high end of density if it were in most other American cities), rather mixed use and had lots of row houses and other non-single family homes.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:06 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm not really sure. But if you can count residential neighborhoods of cities as suburbs, even high density ones, than all of a city except the center could be counted as a suburb.

The neighborhood posted was high density (probably would be near the high end of density if it were in most other American cities), rather mixed use and had lots of row houses and other non-single family homes.
This is true! The problem is that some want to make up their own definition of "city" and "suburb". We had a big, er, discussion, one time about "suburban cities".
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
This is true! The problem is that some want to make up their own definition of "city" and "suburb". We had a big, er, discussion, one time about "suburban cities".
A good example is Colorado Springs......
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm not really sure. But if you can count residential neighborhoods of cities as suburbs, even high density ones, than all of a city except the center could be counted as a suburb.

The neighborhood posted was high density (probably would be near the high end of density if it were in most other American cities), rather mixed use and had lots of row houses and other non-single family homes.
The former would be more the Aussie definition, no? To me it means a bedroom community within commuting distance to the city. It has to have a degree of autonomy (its own parks, schools, restaurants, movie theaters, and so on) but should not be so highly autonomous as to be a separate city. For example, I would not consider San Jose or Oakland to be suburbs of San Francisco.

There really isn't a definition of suburb. For example, I would not consider Staten Island a suburb of New York or Columbia City to be a suburb of Seattle. Some people would, and I don't think it's completely ridiculous to consider them as suburbs.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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To me, the simplest definition of a city is the land within the city limits. Suburb gets more difficult to define.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:53 PM
nei nei started this thread nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
TTo me it means a bedroom community within commuting distance to the city. It has to have a degree of autonomy (its own parks, schools, restaurants, movie theaters, and so on)
But won't any large city have restaurants, movie theaters, schools (though run by the city) in its mostly residential neighborhoods? I guess it's not autonomous, so you wouldn't call it a suburb. But you'd run into problems with some cities, especially Canadian ones. In many Canadian cities, the the entire metro area is one municipality, so there are few if any communities that are within commuting distance to the city not in the city limits. But saying those cities don't have suburbs is silly.

Quote:
There really isn't a definition of suburb. For example, I would not consider Staten Island a suburb of New York or Columbia City to be a suburb of Seattle. Some people would, and I don't think it's completely ridiculous to consider them as suburbs.
I would call (most of) Staten Island a suburban area that happens to be part of New York City, but not a suburb of New York City. I don't really like using city limits to define "urban" vs "suburban" since city limits can be arbitrary, often dependent on which communities got annexed and which didn't. LA is an extreme example of this; the city boundaries don't really follow anything logical. This article describes it well:

Human Transit: the "cities vs suburbs" trope

Quote:
city limits have no authority to tell us what a city is, and why we should want to live in a real city or not
Closer to home for me, one can take a 10 minute walk from Downtown Boston and be out of the Boston city limits, yet the landscape very urban; only looks slightly less urban than downtown Boston. Or one could go 8 miles to the southwest and find yourself in a neighborhood of single family homes and yards and still be in the city limits.

Last edited by nei; 11-15-2011 at 01:01 PM..
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
But won't any large city have restaurants, movie theaters, schools (though run by the city) in its mostly residential neighborhoods? I guess it's not autonomous, so you wouldn't call it a suburb. But you'd run into problems with some cities, especially Canadian ones. In many Canadian cities, the the entire metro area is one municipality, so there are few if any communities that are within commuting distance to the city not in the city limits. But saying those cities don't have suburbs is silly.

I would call (most of) Staten Island a suburban area that happens to be part of New York City, but not a suburb of New York City. I don't really like using city limits to define "urban" vs "suburban" since city limits can be arbitrary, often dependent on which communities got annexed and which didn't. LA is an extreme example of this; the city boundaries don't really follow. This article describes it well:

Human Transit: the "cities vs suburbs" trope

Closer to home for me, one can take a 10 minute walk from Downtown Boston and be out of the Boston city limits, yet the landscape very urban; only looks slightly less urban than downtown Boston. Or one could go 8 miles to the southwest and find yourself in a neighborhood of single family homes and yards and still be in the city limits.
I presume that you're talking about 1) Cambridge and 2) West Roxbury?
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
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This neighborhood is within the city limits of Youngstown:
Youngstown, OH - Google Maps

I certainly wouldn't call it urban.
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Old 11-15-2011, 01:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
This neighborhood is within the city limits of Youngstown:
Youngstown, OH - Google Maps

I certainly wouldn't call it urban.
"Looking" suburban and being suburban can be two different things.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Pueblo - Colorado's Second City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
This is true! The problem is that some want to make up their own definition of "city" and "suburb". We had a big, er, discussion, one time about "suburban cities".
That is a easy definition.

A suburb is a city or town or metro district that is next to the primary city in a MSA.

For example:

Pueblo is the principal city in the Pueblo MSA. Its suburbs are Pueblo West, Avondale, Boone, Blende, Beulah, Rye, Colorado City, and Hatchet Ranch.

Bedroom communities are cities and towns not really in the official MSA but where most of the people who work commute to the city. A good example of a bedroom communities for Pueblo are Rocky Ford, Manzanola, Walsonburg, and Penrose.

To take it one step further then you have regions where the principle cities influence extends. For example Pueblo has the Pueblo region which is a 20 county region in 2 states.
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