A human perspective on cities vs. suburbs (highway, issues, equal)
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Do you ever think that there are people who like using a car. There may be people who dont want to walk all the time to run errands. I don't understand why people can't accept that there are people who like living in different environments. The city is beneficial to some people and the suburbs are beneficial to some people. What about the school systems, crime, tax issues, and etc. There are plenty of reasons why the city isn't as great as urban peopl like to make them out to be. The suburbs aren't the holy grail either, they have their issues too. I'm sorry, but pro urban have got to do better than to keep bringing up walkability. I understand there are benefits to being able to walk everywhere but there are also benefits to being able to drive also.
As I said earlier, I can drive whenever I want. I just walk a few blocks and rent a car. Not a single person here has said that you should walk everywhere, so stop putting words in our mouths. I hear that in every one of these discussions, but the "everyone should walk everywhere" assertion has yet to happen one single time.
I don't want to grocery shop, clothes shop, go to work, and go to most restaurants. I walk to the places near me for dinner or a few items, and to grad school. The rest of the time I take a bus. On more rare occasions, I drive.
But I don't need to own or use a car for 99% of my activities.
As I said earlier, I can drive whenever I want. I just walk a few blocks and rent a car. Not a single person here has said that you should walk everywhere, so stop putting words in our mouths. I hear that in every one of these discussions, but the "everyone should walk everywhere" assertion has yet to happen one single time.
I don't want to grocery shop, clothes shop, go to work, and go to most restaurants. I walk to the places near me for dinner or a few items, and to grad school. The rest of the time I take a bus. On more rare occasions, I drive.
But I don't need to own or use a car for 99% of my activities.
I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth. It's you urban people who keep bringing up the fact that you don't need a car, or you are a "10 minute walk from everything you need in your life." Congrats, you don't need a car for 99% of your activites, i'm happy for you. The OP tried to make blanket statements about the suburbs and I'm just defending it. I like owning a car, and using it alot. It is convenient for me. I don't want to be tied down to a bus schedule, or have to rent a car everytime I need one. On the other hand, you like walking to get around, renting a car, or taking the bus, that is how you choose to live. My way of living is not better than yours and your way of living is not better than mines. Living in an urban environment is not feasible for everybody, just like living in a suburb is not feasible for everybody.
I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth. It's you urban people who keep bringing up the fact that you don't need a car, or you are a "10 minute walk from everything you need in your life." Congrats, you don't need a car for 99% of your activites, i'm happy for you. The OP tried to make blanket statements about the suburbs and I'm just defending it. I like owning a car, and using it alot. It is convenient for me. I don't want to be tied down to a bus schedule, or have to rent a car everytime I need one. On the other hand, you like walking to get around, renting a car, or taking the bus, that is how you choose to live. My way of living is not better than yours and your way of living is not better than mines. Living in an urban environment is not feasible for everybody, just like living in a suburb is not feasible for everybody.
Well I suppose we could measure objectively by sustainability to see whose way of life is "better", which would certainly be amusing, but I am not trying to enter a contest in any case.
Regardless, you and others have said repeatedly that we are claiming that living in a city means everything you could ever need is a 10 minute walk away. You even just did so here! It's really getting old. What we actually claim is that we have a choice between modes of transportation.
And again, for about the 3rd time, I drive as well. Between bussing, walking, biking, trains and driving, all of which I use, I find driving to be by far the least convenient and most exasperating (though not as exasperating as constantly having your words twisted by nit-picking suburbanites). If I lived in a suburb myself, or if I still lived in a rural area of Vermont, it would be more convenient to drive. This is pretty much the point. Driving is less fun in the city, but having the choice in modes trumps all, in many of our books, mine included.
Well I suppose we could measure objectively by sustainability to see whose way of life is "better", which would certainly be amusing, but I am not trying to enter a contest in any case.
Regardless, you and others have said repeatedly that we are claiming that living in a city means everything you could ever need is a 10 minute walk away. You even just did so here! It's really getting old. What we actually claim is that we have a choice between modes of transportation.
And again, for about the 3rd time, I drive as well. Between bussing, walking, biking, trains and driving, all of which I use, I find driving to be by far the least convenient and most exasperating (though not as exasperating as constantly having your words twisted by nit-picking suburbanites). If I lived in a suburb myself, or if I still lived in a rural area of Vermont, it would be more convenient to drive. This is pretty much the point. Driving is less fun in the city, but having the choice in modes trumps all, in many of our books, mine included.
I got news for you, people in the suburbs have different modes of transportation also. Its not limited to the city. I'm not twising your words, i'm just debating the arguements made by you urnabnites. When you make a comment that suggest the city offers something that suburbs don't, i'm going to point it out. By the way, I have never lived in the suburbs, but I plan to next year or by 2013.
Beyond the fact that, as another poster said, you could easily use a cart, you go through 40 pounds of cat litter every 10 days?!
Two cats, three boxes ... yeah. If you raise your eyebrows at that, you've never had cats and there's no point in continuing the discussion.
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Also, it's ridiculously easy to take the bus to the grocery store. It amazed me when I started doing so; I thought it would be much harder.
It might be easy to take the bus to the grocery store -- I could walk to the end of my block, get on the bus, get off at the shopping center -- but it is ridiculously difficult to get on a ridiculously crowded bus with two 20-pound sacks of cat litter, among other things that I'd want to pick up. The old lady cart -- stacked with the groceries -- doesn't go up and down those steps ridiculously well, let alone finding room for the ridiculously loaded cart in the aisle of the bus.
It is much easier, much more convenient, much less of a frustrating hassle, and much more efficient all the way around, to stop at the store on my way home from work with my nifty little fuel-efficient subcompact wagon.
The balance will tip toward population consolidation, when the cost of transportation merits it so.
Before the automobile's rise to dominance, but after electric traction rail (1890 - 1920), cities were the center of rapid growth due to that mode of transport.
After 1950s, it was the cheap and plentiful petrol in mass produced cars that empowered the exodus to the suburbs.
The lure of the city is the same, whether 1890 or 2011, but the ability to function in an automobile bound suburb is going to become more and more expensive over the coming years.
My guess: suburbs will depopulate and reconstitute in compact rural villages, and cities will become more congested.
My hope: city and village developers work to eliminate the problems of high population density and retain the best features.
Two cats, three boxes ... yeah. If you raise your eyebrows at that, you've never had cats and there's no point in continuing the discussion.
My parents have three cats with two boxes. And nowhere near that much litter being used. That's simply excessive.
It might be easy to take the bus to the grocery store -- I could walk to the end of my block, get on the bus, get off at the shopping center -- but it is ridiculously difficult to get on a ridiculously crowded bus with two 20-pound sacks of cat litter, among other things that I'd want to pick up. The old lady cart -- stacked with the groceries -- doesn't go up and down those steps ridiculously well, let alone finding room for the ridiculously loaded cart in the aisle of the bus.
It would probably help to not overuse the cat litter, but regardless, I see people with the old lady carts on the bus all the time. Myself included.
It is much easier, much more convenient, much less of a frustrating hassle, and much more efficient all the way around, to stop at the store on my way home from work with my nifty little fuel-efficient subcompact wagon.
I find it to be completely the opposite. Having had a station wagon.
Maybe if your posts were a little less combative for the sake of combativeness and used examples that were less extreme, there'd be more of a point in "discussing" it with you, but at this point, I don't see why I should bother.
I got news for you, people in the suburbs have different modes of transportation also. Its not limited to the city. I'm not twising your words, i'm just debating the arguements made by you urnabnites. When you make a comment that suggest the city offers something that suburbs don't, i'm going to point it out. By the way, I have never lived in the suburbs, but I plan to next year or by 2013.
People in the suburbs are always complaining about how poor the transit is. Pick one. Okay, fine, effective modes of transportation. Nice to see you're getting a head start on the nit picking before your move; I'm sure you'll be very happy there.
The balance will tip toward population consolidation, when the cost of transportation merits it so.
Before the automobile's rise to dominance, but after electric traction rail (1890 - 1920), cities were the center of rapid growth due to that mode of transport.
After 1950s, it was the cheap and plentiful petrol in mass produced cars that empowered the exodus to the suburbs.
The lure of the city is the same, whether 1890 or 2011, but the ability to function in an automobile bound suburb is going to become more and more expensive over the coming years.
My guess: suburbs will depopulate and reconstitute in compact rural villages, and cities will become more congested.
My hope: city and village developers work to eliminate the problems of high population density and retain the best features.
If C-D is any indication, we'll be waiting quite a long time for that type of cooperation.
My parents have three cats with two boxes. And nowhere near that much litter being used.
Remind me not to go to your parents' house. P-U.
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I find it to be completely the opposite
Well, bless your heart.
And that my friends is what makes the world go round. We all have different needs, wants and preferences. And wouldn't it be a grand world indeed if we didn't have to put up with random and uninformed criticisms and ridiculous and unwarranted pronouncements about our preferred lifestyles from pompous, self-proclaimed experts, hipsters and gurus? Oh, maybe in 2012. Happy New Year.
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